Sun May 20, 2007 11:13 am
It would, but I felt the need to respond to what was said.
Sun May 20, 2007 11:31 am
Gary - You and the boys have done an incredible job on the Lib, and she looks absolutely beautiful. I have just a couple of questions for possiblities in future years. First, did any As have a top turret added later, or in the field, and if so, does the CAF have one available? Secondly, with your sheet metal skills, wouldn't you be able to build a greenhouse canopy, or if not, would it be cost-prohibitive to have the same outfit that redid the nose manufacture a greenhouse? Please understand that these are just things I was wondering about for maybe some time in the future. Thanks.
George
George
Sun May 20, 2007 12:41 pm
Good questions, George.
To answer your first question, no, none of the "A" models ever had a top turret. They did, however, have a hole in the top of the airplane that a gun, mounted on a ring, stuck out of. Ol' 927 still has that ring installed, but when the airplanne was converted from a bomber to a transport, they routed the control cables through the top of the airplane, which is right across that top gunner's ring. I would need to re-route the cables around that ring to put that position back in place......which is in the long term plan.
Second, I have every intention of finishing the greenhouse for the cockpit. You just can't imagine how many people have asked me about that. It's funny, because as detail oriented as I can sometimes be, I never really paid that much attention until everyone started asking me if I was going to change that this year.
If you haven't noticed, we did try to cheat a little and install portions of the greenhouse (two small windows above each pilot), but that is obviously only a starting point. The two challenges for finishing the greenhouse are to relocate the switchery that's inbetween and above both pilots to their proper location (flight engineer's panel). And fabricating the three piece windshield. I actually have no doubt we can get that done, but I just ran out of time this year.
I hope that helps answer your questions.
Gary
To answer your first question, no, none of the "A" models ever had a top turret. They did, however, have a hole in the top of the airplane that a gun, mounted on a ring, stuck out of. Ol' 927 still has that ring installed, but when the airplanne was converted from a bomber to a transport, they routed the control cables through the top of the airplane, which is right across that top gunner's ring. I would need to re-route the cables around that ring to put that position back in place......which is in the long term plan.
Second, I have every intention of finishing the greenhouse for the cockpit. You just can't imagine how many people have asked me about that. It's funny, because as detail oriented as I can sometimes be, I never really paid that much attention until everyone started asking me if I was going to change that this year.
If you haven't noticed, we did try to cheat a little and install portions of the greenhouse (two small windows above each pilot), but that is obviously only a starting point. The two challenges for finishing the greenhouse are to relocate the switchery that's inbetween and above both pilots to their proper location (flight engineer's panel). And fabricating the three piece windshield. I actually have no doubt we can get that done, but I just ran out of time this year.
I hope that helps answer your questions.
Gary
Sun May 20, 2007 1:30 pm
Gary - Thanks for the very informative explanations and answers. Thats really a shame that they re-routed the cables like that, but certainly there had to be a valid reason for doing it. I did recall the ring from some of your pictures, making me think it was for a turret, but I obviously forgot your explanation that went with the picture. I also recall the small windows added to the cockpit, which look great. I know that you are more than capable of making the greenhouse, and that will really add the final touch to a beautiful Lib. Thanks again
Sun May 20, 2007 2:34 pm
Ah yes, the much dreaded 95% done, 50% to go stage.
Gun Ring
Tue May 22, 2007 12:41 am
George,
Since I was working on the new radio room seating arrangement I spent a few minutes studying the upper gun position this weekend. Not only is the gun mount ring entirely intact, the cutout in the fuselage skin is also still there, albeit plugged with stringers and sheetmetal installed during the cargo conversion. The actual door above the ring was shaped like the waist window doors, but I haven't figured out exactly how the door opened to expose the ring. Originally, the cables that now run down the top of the fuselage were routed along the sides of the airplane. In order to keep them clear of cargo, and to allow the large cargo door to be installed, they were simply relocated to the center of the fuselage. It wouldn't be a huge task to relocate the cables if one had access to cable swaging tools and all the hardware needed, but it would consume a lot of time (that Gary doesn't have in abundance) and require a complete re-rigging of all tail controls. There is indeed a LOT of work remaining and not a lot of help has been flowing in. SKILLED VOLUNTEERS NEEDED!
Scott
Since I was working on the new radio room seating arrangement I spent a few minutes studying the upper gun position this weekend. Not only is the gun mount ring entirely intact, the cutout in the fuselage skin is also still there, albeit plugged with stringers and sheetmetal installed during the cargo conversion. The actual door above the ring was shaped like the waist window doors, but I haven't figured out exactly how the door opened to expose the ring. Originally, the cables that now run down the top of the fuselage were routed along the sides of the airplane. In order to keep them clear of cargo, and to allow the large cargo door to be installed, they were simply relocated to the center of the fuselage. It wouldn't be a huge task to relocate the cables if one had access to cable swaging tools and all the hardware needed, but it would consume a lot of time (that Gary doesn't have in abundance) and require a complete re-rigging of all tail controls. There is indeed a LOT of work remaining and not a lot of help has been flowing in. SKILLED VOLUNTEERS NEEDED!
Scott
Tue May 22, 2007 3:59 am
There is a place in Seattle that used to make aircraft cables, but I am not sure if they are still doing it. All a customer had to do was provide the length and size and it would be made to order. They were an FAA approved manufacturer. The owner formerly owned N17W, the B-17F that is now owned by the Museum of Flight.
RICK
RICK
Tue May 22, 2007 6:27 am
I can make those cables myself. No problem there. It's just making all of the required pulley brackets and whatnot to make it all work. It's NOT going to happen this year though, I can assure you of that.
Gary
Gary
Tue May 22, 2007 6:35 am
Gary,
With all of the work you've done and the sleep you've lost, I'd be looking at a couple of months off to catch up. I just wish I could do more to help you out. If you can come up with some drawings, I can probably fab up some of the brackets you will need.
RICK
With all of the work you've done and the sleep you've lost, I'd be looking at a couple of months off to catch up. I just wish I could do more to help you out. If you can come up with some drawings, I can probably fab up some of the brackets you will need.
RICK
Tue May 22, 2007 6:35 am
Gary,
With all of the work you've done and the sleep you've lost, I'd be looking at a couple of months off to catch up. I just wish I could do more to help you out. If you can come up with some drawings, I can probably fab up some of the brackets you will need.
RICK
With all of the work you've done and the sleep you've lost, I'd be looking at a couple of months off to catch up. I just wish I could do more to help you out. If you can come up with some drawings, I can probably fab up some of the brackets you will need.
RICK
Tue May 22, 2007 11:10 am
Yeah Gary take some time off. You've earned it.
Relax and Go Fishing.........I hear Lake Mead is nice.
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Relax and Go Fishing.........I hear Lake Mead is nice.
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Tue May 22, 2007 1:19 pm
Shay wrote:
Relax and Go Fishing.........I hear Lake Mead is nice.
Shay
____________
Theres a B-29 at the bottom of that lake...
Tue May 22, 2007 2:48 pm
APG85 wrote:Shay wrote:
Relax and Go Fishing.........I hear Lake Mead is nice.
Shay
____________
Theres a B-29 at the bottom of that lake...
Oh there is???
My My fancy that.
Bring a couple air tanks and floatbags too Gary
Shay
______________
Semper Fortis
Tue May 22, 2007 4:16 pm
As a man once said " what a coinkadink !
Tue May 22, 2007 8:05 pm
Scott (Second Air Force) - I appreciate the further details on the cables in relation to the ring, as well as cargo vs bomber cable position. This Lib is like a time capsule within a time capsule, as you and Gary keep uncovering more original bomber in the structure. I am hoping some source will come up with drawings of how the gun door was installed, but I bet Gary and you will eventually figure it out anyway. Hope some more skilled labor can make it out there soon to support you guys.