Lysanders???

[mustangdriver]

Anyone know a web site to see pics of it?

[JDK]

Are there any Lysanders flying in US or Canada?
bill word

Hi Bill,
Currently no. The nearest is the CWH machine, which has been completed to airworthy condition, and has undertaken engine runs in 2005. As ever, there's still things to do, though so it's yet to fly.

Harry Wherratt's, also in Canada, may have flown, but no one's telling! The example in the Smithsonian, at the new Udvar Hazy centre (probably the example Blurrkup's thinking of) was airworthy when restored by Dwight Brooks and 'Fish' Salmon in the 80s. Likewise, Kermit's example was airworthy in the UK before he bought it. Back further, the Canadian Aviation Museum's example was flown after restoration, but that was in the sixties.

Elsewhere, the Shuttleworth example flew this weekend, and is the only currently airworthy example in the world. The Aircraft Restoration Company have the rebuild of a Westland built example underway to fly at Duxford, but that's a way to go yet. In Belgium, the Sabena Old Timers are repairing their example after a landing accident some years ago.

The problem with Lysanders is twofold. They aren't a complex aircraft, but they are odd, both in construction and aerodynamics and thus flying technique. Being a British '30s design, it's a tube frame with wooden stringers and fabric covering structure, with aditional metal panels - not stressed skin construction, lots of fiddly structure, and the short-landing trim and flap arrangement is unique, and a killer for the unwary, although under wartime conditions, unbeatable.

Most critically, they were engined with the Bristol Mercury and Bristol Perseus, the latter being a sleeve-valve and effectively, in working form, extinct. Until ARC came along and 'tamed' the Mercury with their Blenheim, only Shuttleworth had managed to run one (in their case on a Gladiator) for any length of time. Generally other operators gave up with trying to get the engine to behave. It's not, I'm told impossible, but it's very different to other (particularly US) radials and requires a different approach - something pre-ARC operators never seem to have got on top of.

Kermit has one in Lakeland, non-flying. Until you see one in person, its hard to be impressed with it. Once you see it, wow, cool airplane. Big and strong, lots of power.

Wouldn't argue with that. It's a BIG 'plane. Incidentally, the pilot's position (once you've mountain-climbed into it) has to have one of the best views of the period.

Anybody know if any of the remaining Lysanders are displayed with the .303 brownings still mounted in the Wheel fairings and with the Wheel fairing bomb racks?

Beautiful bird.

The CWH example was certainly test-fitted with Brownings - I have photos. Once the access panels are closed, you can't tell, though, and except the Langley machine, as mentioned,I don't know if any of the grounded ones do. I don't think those others under restoration to fly, or Shuttleworth's do. None have the stub wing fitted. The actual rack (which would be hung under the stub wing) was usually just a 'Mk.1 Light Series Carrier', as used across the Commonwealth on many types. There was normally (when fitted) a third under the rear fuselage, as well.

It doesn't sound like getting a Lysander flying is a very easy thing to do. My museum (Canadian Museum of flight, Langley BC) has one and just out of curiosity I e-mailed the CWH to ask if they'd suggest getting ours flying. The person that responded said it is a very BIG undertaking, and suggested that we just keep the plane as is, maybe restore it to static, but certainly not to flying status unless we really really want to.

The big cost is the engine. We'd need to get a Mercury from the National Museum in Ottawa for a trade, but I don't know what we'd be willing to give up to get it.

Dave, it would certainly cost a bomb, and the engine cost, although big, would vanish alongside the other costs. If you want to explore it further, drop me a note and I'll put you in touch with the other restorers, and they'll give you some scary data, I'm sure.

Your Lizzie is an excellent 'showpiece' as it is, and IMHO should be kept like that. It was certainly useful for my book!

Anyone know a web site to see pics of it?

No. I have some photos, but it's essentially framework and parts. The Lysander is very much a 'Meccano' or 'Erector-set' aircraft with lots of part-swapping going on, with the result that giving a certain ID to survivors is a nightmare.

This is all because I'm author of 'The Westland Lysander', MMP Books.

Cheers!

[mustangdriver]

Wow! That is cool man.

[tom d. friedman]

the lysander has a mystique of all it's own with it's history.......... alot of it still undocumented.

[JDK]

...... alot of it still undocumented.

Really? Not my experience. No more so than many other types of W.W.II, it's out there if you are interested, and bother to get out of the shallow end populated by P-51 trivia.

The 4+ book on the Lysander is an excellent technical read.

We've had a number of excellent reviews of my own book; it's not for me to comment on it's quality, but regarding it's content, we have a number of previously untold stories in there, from the thirties to post-war, and from India, Egypt, Burma, the US and Canada as well as across Europe.

For the Special Duties Lysander operations, you can't do better than 'We Landed by Moonlight' by Hugh Verity, one of the premier 161 Sqn Lysander pilots, and a good writer on history.

Difficult to get, but worth it is the Lysander Special by Bruce Robertson.

The Operational Record Books of the various squadrons is available to researchers at the National Archives in the UK, as well as a lot of other primary documentation.

Regards,

[tom d. friedman]

i'll have to pick up a copy!! thanks!!!

[K225]

Harry Wherratt's Lysander is on the move to Vintage Wings Canada. Hopefully will be flying before long. Mike Potter will make sure his crew go over it fully before she is allowed to fly. They are doing the same with Harry's Hurricane 5447.
The wings are back on the Swordfish and she awaits the rebuilt engine hopefully to be in the air soon. One interesting stat that Mike mentioned to us is the Lysander has a wingspan 41/2 feet longer than the Swordfish.
Vintage Wings solo'd two new Spitfire pilots a couple of weeks ago as well.

[JDK]

Hi K225,

Thanks for that. Is it 'official' now? I'd heard rumours.

I'd also strongly urge the team to talk to John Romain and team at ARC for the smart way to win with a Mercury. I'm sure the VWOC guys are the best (I've seen the facility) but there's no point in re-inventing the wheel.

Cheers,

[JDK]

i'll have to pick up a copy!! thanks!!!

Hi Tom,
Your local 'good bookstore' should be able to get it. In N America, it's distributed by MMD / Squadron.

http://mmpbooks.biz/ditribution/distribution.html

Hope you like it, drop me a line if you have difficulties getting it.

[K225]

Guess you saw the offical announcement in Mike's post. The Vintage Wings crew were in Saskatchewan dismantelling the aircraft for shipping this week.

[Bradleygolding]

This is all because I'm author of 'The Westland Lysander', MMP Books.

Cheers!

So would you be the person to ask for if I wanted a pilots POV high res photo of the instrument pannel then? (colour of course if possible).

Thanks

Steve

[Iclo]

Hi Steve,

I must have some pictures of the panel of the Sabena's Lysander.
I can look in my documentation this evening if you are interested.

Regards.

[Bradleygolding]

Hi Steve,

I must have some pictures of the panel of the Sabena's Lysander.
I can look in my documentation this evening if you are interested.

Regards.

Well I made the Lysander for X-Plane and it needs a better pannel, so anything would be helpful.

Thanks

Steve

[JBrawner]

this one was in saskatoon when i was up there last year for the airshow.... they said it could fly but for the show it didnt so not sure. the guy had a bunch of trainer aircraft as well on site rebuilding them in house.

[Iclo]

Steve,

It's funny because I worked on a similar projet for Ms flight Simulator (not enought time to work on this project since a few months)

I have 25 pictures of the inside of the cockpit, so if you need pictures of specific parts, ask me.


I have technical information too, mainly a complete description of a flight in French, with flight dynamic caracteristics, and operationnal procedures.

Panel rebuild for the Lysander going to the Brussels Army Museum for static display.



Pictures of the inside of the flying Lysander, (in restoration, due fly this year normaly.)



A link to a post where I posted more picture of my visit in the hangar of the association.http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=108933&highlight=#108933

Sorry for my bad English...

Best Regards