Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:28 pm
I just had to add one more penny here .... I just saw the terrible photos of the two news helecopters that collided in Arizona. Just heart-breaking to see these photos. The first thing that came into my mind was how the family and friends of those 4 lost would feel seeing these photos. If it were me that was a family member, those photos would send me straight to a bottle. ... I just don't see the need to show helecopters falling out of the sky. ... or Mustangs flipping over ... What is to be learned from seeing that? .... everytime I saw 9/11 footage .... I felt pain, I don't know about you all, but I personally don't learn well when my mind is poisoned by pain and suffering.
I understand that many feel they can learn by viewing such photos, and I guess that could be valid in certain ways, but I personally feel that I can learn just as much by reading as seeing. I knew quite a bit about Gerry's crash by what I read. I guess I should say, I knew enough by what I read to learn enough of what I needed to know.
I ask you, how would it make you feel if your Son, Father or Husband's tragic photos were on display for all to see?
This is not mean't to offend ... just to think.
I spend more time reading than watching TV ... sometimes I feel I'm a better man because of it.
Mark the thinker
I understand that many feel they can learn by viewing such photos, and I guess that could be valid in certain ways, but I personally feel that I can learn just as much by reading as seeing. I knew quite a bit about Gerry's crash by what I read. I guess I should say, I knew enough by what I read to learn enough of what I needed to know.
I ask you, how would it make you feel if your Son, Father or Husband's tragic photos were on display for all to see?
This is not mean't to offend ... just to think.
I spend more time reading than watching TV ... sometimes I feel I'm a better man because of it.
Mark the thinker
Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:38 pm
I don't see any reason to censure photos on this forum. We are all involved with our interest in warbirds and flying and the photos help to realize and understand the accident. YES the loss of Gerry Beck is almost unreal and the warbird movement has lost a good man. The photos will be all over the internet. At least here we can show the results in photos and have the ability to comment on the factors with an understanding and caring for the people involved. We might not have all meet Gerry Beck in person but, we all have known others who lost their lives in warbirds.
Close ranks and continue
Steve
Close ranks and continue
Steve
Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:44 pm
I think a link to the photos would not be a bad idea.
Tim
Tim
Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:09 pm
I agree that perhaps linking pictures is probalbly best.
But I believe that if they are to be shown then it should be on a forum such as this when compared to the many horror groupie picture sites out there.
Atleast here they might serve to remind all of us who admire, maintain and fly, what people can potentionally sacrifice everytime they strap into a aircraft. Here those lost will be remembered and talked about with respect and pure heart felt appreciation. And not be some nameless pilot as with some shady websites.
I say let them be shown but when linked, out of respect for those loved ones left behind.
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
But I believe that if they are to be shown then it should be on a forum such as this when compared to the many horror groupie picture sites out there.
Atleast here they might serve to remind all of us who admire, maintain and fly, what people can potentionally sacrifice everytime they strap into a aircraft. Here those lost will be remembered and talked about with respect and pure heart felt appreciation. And not be some nameless pilot as with some shady websites.
I say let them be shown but when linked, out of respect for those loved ones left behind.
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Post
Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:25 pm
It is only my opinion, but we may learn from photos like these. If it had been me instead of Gerry, and there is a lesson that can help the next pilot, then please post them. Reasonable limits of taste and privacy can be used.
Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:31 pm
Gerry was a friend and I tried to use the utmost respect in my original post about the accident, but I (for once) totally agree with Bill Greenwood. Post the pics and or video. If nothing else, I want to be sure that what I heard happened, is what I see that happened.
Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:55 pm
I'm along BDK's line of thinking. Photos and video are out on the net with frightening speed, if there is a link, that's okay, I just don't think they should be posted for everyone to see as they move through the site. Let the reader decide to go there if they so choose.
Jerry
Jerry
Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:57 pm
it's pointless to deny the info & pics of a crash. the news media today is so vast & broad that the info would get out regardless. case in point..... last month, my stepson's death / car crash pics were on the web within 24 hours after it happened. tragedy...... it's sleazy & hyped up to the public's interest. news crews chasing fleeling criminals, c.s.i. b.s. on tv, etc. tragedy today is a venue that brings ratings & big $$$$$$ sad to say.
Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:07 pm
I think that if the pictures are going to be anywhere, this site is the proper place. Here people who see the pictures will be able to see what happened in the moments leading up to the accident. Something can be learned from every accident, and having the photos makes it possible to show what happened.
Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:40 pm
Since I'm not really a true member of the Warbird community, and, for that matter, not even a pilot, perhaps my opinion is meaningless. That being said, I'll toss it into the pot. Many good points have been stated in others' postings prior to mine. There is clearly an opposing viewpoint, as we all knew there would be. So, for what it's worth, here's mine:
Like it or not, the news media will blast stories with photos and/or videos of an aviation tragedy, whether it's fatal or not, all over the internet, television, radio, magazines, newspapers, and so forth, usually as soon as they possibly can. They will often put their own "spin" on the incident. The media, by and large, knows little about aviation and those who engage in it, so their reports will often be inaccurate, sometimes to a ridiculous degree (think back a few weeks ago to the T-28 beach landing incident where the TV reporter referred to the pitot tube as a machine gun!). For those of us who want and need to be able to read accurate, factual reports, it is a blessing to be able to read them here on this board, where they are written by people we know and trust. All too often, when a warbird goes down, those aboard are our friends, and we want the real story, not some half-baked, hyped-up, inaccurate media frenzy. I don't think many WIX'ers would argue that point. When it comes to posting photos and video clips, as others have stated, there is no doubt that they will be all over the internet within hours of the tragedy's occurrance. Some will be posted by members of the warbird community, with the appropriate level of detail and respect for the dead and injured. Others will come from the public, and probably won't be all that respectful. Most will be put out by the media, and sadly, many will not be tasteful, but instead will be intended to provoke public outrage. Some of those will undoubtedly show "blood 'n guts". Perhaps some will provide meaningful information that we could learn from. So, the big question remains: do we post photos here on WIX or not? I think the best solution is going to be that we post links to tasteful, meaningful, respectful photos and video clips, and then let our fellow WIX'ers decide whether it is in their own best interests to follow the links or not. No one will ever be offended by NOT seeing a potentially disturbing picture or video clip. Let's leave the choice up to each individual. If I lost a personal friend in an aviation tragedy, or for any other reason, I don't think I'd want to see photos of it, at least not right away. On the other hand, I'm not a big fan of censorship. Let's leave it up to each individual to decide what's right for them.
I hate hearing about and reading about the death of anyone in the aviation community. But, as someone else mentioned, this sport is inherently dangerous, and everyone who flies any kind of aircraft is aware of the risks and is willing to take them, knowing fully well that crashes can and do happen, even to the very best pilots. Although I never met Gerry Beck, I have read about him and seen his warbird exploits detailed in print and pictures. The sport has lost yet another great man. My heartfelt best wishes go out to his family, friends, and all who have been affected by his passing. If there is a bright side to his death, it is this: he died doing something that he truly loved, which is a privilege that will not be afforded to most of us.
Fly safely, my friends!
Like it or not, the news media will blast stories with photos and/or videos of an aviation tragedy, whether it's fatal or not, all over the internet, television, radio, magazines, newspapers, and so forth, usually as soon as they possibly can. They will often put their own "spin" on the incident. The media, by and large, knows little about aviation and those who engage in it, so their reports will often be inaccurate, sometimes to a ridiculous degree (think back a few weeks ago to the T-28 beach landing incident where the TV reporter referred to the pitot tube as a machine gun!). For those of us who want and need to be able to read accurate, factual reports, it is a blessing to be able to read them here on this board, where they are written by people we know and trust. All too often, when a warbird goes down, those aboard are our friends, and we want the real story, not some half-baked, hyped-up, inaccurate media frenzy. I don't think many WIX'ers would argue that point. When it comes to posting photos and video clips, as others have stated, there is no doubt that they will be all over the internet within hours of the tragedy's occurrance. Some will be posted by members of the warbird community, with the appropriate level of detail and respect for the dead and injured. Others will come from the public, and probably won't be all that respectful. Most will be put out by the media, and sadly, many will not be tasteful, but instead will be intended to provoke public outrage. Some of those will undoubtedly show "blood 'n guts". Perhaps some will provide meaningful information that we could learn from. So, the big question remains: do we post photos here on WIX or not? I think the best solution is going to be that we post links to tasteful, meaningful, respectful photos and video clips, and then let our fellow WIX'ers decide whether it is in their own best interests to follow the links or not. No one will ever be offended by NOT seeing a potentially disturbing picture or video clip. Let's leave the choice up to each individual. If I lost a personal friend in an aviation tragedy, or for any other reason, I don't think I'd want to see photos of it, at least not right away. On the other hand, I'm not a big fan of censorship. Let's leave it up to each individual to decide what's right for them.
I hate hearing about and reading about the death of anyone in the aviation community. But, as someone else mentioned, this sport is inherently dangerous, and everyone who flies any kind of aircraft is aware of the risks and is willing to take them, knowing fully well that crashes can and do happen, even to the very best pilots. Although I never met Gerry Beck, I have read about him and seen his warbird exploits detailed in print and pictures. The sport has lost yet another great man. My heartfelt best wishes go out to his family, friends, and all who have been affected by his passing. If there is a bright side to his death, it is this: he died doing something that he truly loved, which is a privilege that will not be afforded to most of us.
Fly safely, my friends!
Re: Post
Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:45 pm
Bill Greenwood wrote:It is only my opinion, but we may learn from photos like these. If it had been me instead of Gerry, and there is a lesson that can help the next pilot, then please post them. Reasonable limits of taste and privacy can be used.
Best answer yet. And no, it is not to satisfy some morbid curiosity; rather to give others an understanding of what happened so they may learn from it.
Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:43 am
I've been in aviation for a few decades, and have scraped up 20+ wrecks.
Crashes are a sad part of aviation, but they still a part of aviation, and one that will probably remain as long as man continues to fly.
I see no reason to try to avoid acknowledging them, and this includes viewing photographs on this site. It should be done in a respectful manner, and certainly only after next-of-kin notifications have been made. I doubt any photographs will show the gore I've seen in person.
We share a common interest in these aircraft, and when a crash occurs, it raises the question of, is the aircraft rebuildable? Photographs will help answer that question.
Additionally, crash photographs may help some pilots retain the proper respect for aircraft and flying. I have met plenty of pilots who lack this respect, and I refuse to fly with them.
Crashes are a sad part of aviation, but they still a part of aviation, and one that will probably remain as long as man continues to fly.
I see no reason to try to avoid acknowledging them, and this includes viewing photographs on this site. It should be done in a respectful manner, and certainly only after next-of-kin notifications have been made. I doubt any photographs will show the gore I've seen in person.
We share a common interest in these aircraft, and when a crash occurs, it raises the question of, is the aircraft rebuildable? Photographs will help answer that question.
Additionally, crash photographs may help some pilots retain the proper respect for aircraft and flying. I have met plenty of pilots who lack this respect, and I refuse to fly with them.
Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:35 pm
I disagree with part of your statement. Everything has its dangers, & from what I've read of this unfortunate accident, a similar accident could occur with brand new Cessnas or Pipers or RV-6s or airliners or military a/c, so to remind us how "dangerous flying these old panes" is, seems misleading. As for the pics, they are already at numerous locations online, so whether they are posted here is redundant anyway. Unless they show grotesque 'personal' details, I see nothing wrong with their posting. My measly 2 cents.
cg51 wrote:I say leave them but link them so you don't have to look if you don't want to, these photo's while hard to look at are a reminder of how dangerous flying these old planes are, besides who knows NTSB/FAA may look in these types of forums for crash photos taken by folks like us to help put the pieces of the puzzle together. Just a thought
Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:28 pm
I am in favor of posting links to the photos so people have the choice to look or not to look. It was helpful to me to understand what happened at Oshkosh by seeing the posted pictures here; this was the first place I came to when I heard of the accident. Same with the Dayton accident; I was there but offline until I got home tonight; this was the first place I came to once I got online. I wanted to know and understand.
I consider this site to be THE place to find out about warbirds and airshows; the opinions and experiences expressed here are amazing, accurate (mostly
), and forthright. If people outside of WIX want to find out what is going on with warbirds, this is the place. How many first-time visitors have come here this weekend to find that information? That said, maybe WIX can also be a leader in "how you respond to a tragedy like this." Posting tributes and remembrances to honor their memories and contributions is a great way to do just that.
respectfully,
Dave G
I consider this site to be THE place to find out about warbirds and airshows; the opinions and experiences expressed here are amazing, accurate (mostly
), and forthright. If people outside of WIX want to find out what is going on with warbirds, this is the place. How many first-time visitors have come here this weekend to find that information? That said, maybe WIX can also be a leader in "how you respond to a tragedy like this." Posting tributes and remembrances to honor their memories and contributions is a great way to do just that.
respectfully,
Dave G
Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:42 pm
Let them stay.
Lest We (for a moment) Forget
Our responsibilites as Pilots, as Mechanics, as Flight Line personel, and the people who train and evaluate them.
Only we can take care of one another.
May God protect us ALL and remind us that the Lord helps those who help themselves.
Lest We (for a moment) Forget
Our responsibilites as Pilots, as Mechanics, as Flight Line personel, and the people who train and evaluate them.
Only we can take care of one another.
May God protect us ALL and remind us that the Lord helps those who help themselves.