Irian Jaya P-40
Sun Nov 21, 2004 8:53 pm
In the book "The Whole Nine Yards' there is a reference to a very 'troublesome' P-40 being deliberately ditched by the pilot, who turned the mags on and off to simulate engine problems ( which this particular aircraft was forever having), and he organized the incident with the ground crew and rescue boat , which was on standby. He was picked up without even getting his feet wet.
The lake was at the end of the field at Hollandia, Irain Jaya and is called Lk.Sentani.
I have asked a few people about the possibility of recovery, but although several operators have gotten stuff from PNG, no one seems to be keen on going across the border. Has anyone had experience in recovering anything from there ? I assume the problems stem from the Indonesian Govt., although why it would be more difficult than PNG I don't know. Certainly the lake is quite accessible.
Any ideas ??
Dave
The lake was at the end of the field at Hollandia, Irain Jaya and is called Lk.Sentani.
I have asked a few people about the possibility of recovery, but although several operators have gotten stuff from PNG, no one seems to be keen on going across the border. Has anyone had experience in recovering anything from there ? I assume the problems stem from the Indonesian Govt., although why it would be more difficult than PNG I don't know. Certainly the lake is quite accessible.
Any ideas ??
Dave
Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:28 pm
Hello Dave:
Ah, Lake Sentani. I was researching recovering an aircraft from the lake. I talked to Irian Diving about a reported twin engined Japanese plane in the lake. However, I was discouraged from attempting a recovery from the lake by several people for many reasons.
Max Ammer from Irian Diving reported finding the scattered remains of a ki-84 Frank in the lake as well. Evidently there are also several PBY's in the lake too. I'd like to collaborate with you, and maybe work with you on contacting the Indonesian gov't. Evidently they are pretty reasonable.
Thanks,
Chris
Ah, Lake Sentani. I was researching recovering an aircraft from the lake. I talked to Irian Diving about a reported twin engined Japanese plane in the lake. However, I was discouraged from attempting a recovery from the lake by several people for many reasons.
Max Ammer from Irian Diving reported finding the scattered remains of a ki-84 Frank in the lake as well. Evidently there are also several PBY's in the lake too. I'd like to collaborate with you, and maybe work with you on contacting the Indonesian gov't. Evidently they are pretty reasonable.
Thanks,
Chris
Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:33 pm
Chris
I have sent a mail to Charles Darby to get his thoughts on the pros and cons of recovering from Irian Jaya, he certainly has plenty of experience. I will post what he says.
Dave
I have sent a mail to Charles Darby to get his thoughts on the pros and cons of recovering from Irian Jaya, he certainly has plenty of experience. I will post what he says.
Dave
Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:21 am
Hi
Irian Jaya is no worse than most other parts of Indonesia.
My advice would be to contact the embassy in Indonesia and get some advice especially from the military atache and try to engage with the Indonesian Military at the highest possible level so that you don't get into trouble and also the local military don't get a little entrapaunerial with you - they like to get their cut sometimes which can make life a little hard.
I am happy to help if you need any support or advice as I have done a lot of Government Business with the indonesians over the years and I have a few contacts there.
Regards
John P
Irian Jaya is no worse than most other parts of Indonesia.
My advice would be to contact the embassy in Indonesia and get some advice especially from the military atache and try to engage with the Indonesian Military at the highest possible level so that you don't get into trouble and also the local military don't get a little entrapaunerial with you - they like to get their cut sometimes which can make life a little hard.
I am happy to help if you need any support or advice as I have done a lot of Government Business with the indonesians over the years and I have a few contacts there.
Regards
John P
Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:49 pm
Charles Darby sent this reply, I didn't post his comments on the politics of the area, needless to say the locals do things their own way and don't have much to do with Jakarta.
Dave
"Sentani is a big, shallow, dirty, rather brackish lake and it's probably
difficult to find aircraft in it, although some have been located.
Other than Bruce Fenstermaker at Babo, the only people who have had any sucess with salvage (so far as I know} are the Japanese scrappers who have been willing to put people in the field, on the ground, for as long as it takes to get what they want. Short-term, fly-in/fly-out visits by
would-be salvors have proven unproductive, to say the least."
Dave
"Sentani is a big, shallow, dirty, rather brackish lake and it's probably
difficult to find aircraft in it, although some have been located.
Other than Bruce Fenstermaker at Babo, the only people who have had any sucess with salvage (so far as I know} are the Japanese scrappers who have been willing to put people in the field, on the ground, for as long as it takes to get what they want. Short-term, fly-in/fly-out visits by
would-be salvors have proven unproductive, to say the least."
Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:11 pm
I'd do it anyway, and be very dedicated in the effort.
Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:17 pm
Chris
Well anything is doable..question is how much money are you prepared to risk, not to mention the personal safety factor.?
Dave
Well anything is doable..question is how much money are you prepared to risk, not to mention the personal safety factor.?
Dave
Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:36 pm
Yes Dave
A lot of better prospect lakes to look at first I would have thought.
regards
John P
A lot of better prospect lakes to look at first I would have thought.
regards
John P
Thu Nov 25, 2004 12:38 am
Just do it. The risk of personal safety can't be high. I'd advise contacting Irian Diving. They have some knowledge of what's in the lake. If you write this off w/o completion of homework, your mind was probably already made up.
Thu Nov 25, 2004 12:45 am
Hi HarvardIV
I understand your point of view but people are in some danger there - not to be attempted unless you understand and accept the risks and you can mitigate the risk by doing all the right things through the Government first.
I am not sugesting that it shouldn't be done just being very organised will help. Diplomats are there for a purpose and using them can't hurt.
My two bobs worth anyway
Regards
John P
I understand your point of view but people are in some danger there - not to be attempted unless you understand and accept the risks and you can mitigate the risk by doing all the right things through the Government first.
I am not sugesting that it shouldn't be done just being very organised will help. Diplomats are there for a purpose and using them can't hurt.
My two bobs worth anyway
Regards
John P
Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:55 am
Hi Mr. Setter:
What danger? If you can intermingle with natives, and you take your pistol with you; you should be fine. I believe these guys still use spears..
I understand your point of view but people are in some danger there
What danger? If you can intermingle with natives, and you take your pistol with you; you should be fine. I believe these guys still use spears..
Thu Nov 25, 2004 2:07 am
Actually they have M-16s 
The local Indon military patrol the area. One of the regular operators to the PNG area was surrounded bya group of them, needless to say a tense moment ! I figure it is best to bow to the knowledge of guys like Darby, they have been working in the Pacific Islands for 40 odd years and know what they are talking about.
Dave
The local Indon military patrol the area. One of the regular operators to the PNG area was surrounded bya group of them, needless to say a tense moment ! I figure it is best to bow to the knowledge of guys like Darby, they have been working in the Pacific Islands for 40 odd years and know what they are talking about.
Dave
Thu Nov 25, 2004 2:12 am
Hi Dave:
The Mid-Atlantic Air Museum had to get the Indonesian Military to escort them, and force the issue on the local natives to give up the P-61. They had to trade a Stearman to the Indonesian gov't to get the rights to the P-61. Comeon, you've got to work with the system, not fight it.
Besides you Ausies shouldn't have any trouble since you can wrestle gators, throw knives, make coyote calls, and play tricks just like croc dundee right mates?
The Mid-Atlantic Air Museum had to get the Indonesian Military to escort them, and force the issue on the local natives to give up the P-61. They had to trade a Stearman to the Indonesian gov't to get the rights to the P-61. Comeon, you've got to work with the system, not fight it.
Besides you Ausies shouldn't have any trouble since you can wrestle gators, throw knives, make coyote calls, and play tricks just like croc dundee right mates?
Thu Nov 25, 2004 2:29 am
Chris
I can't remember where the P-61 was in Indonesia, but Jaya is a slightly different proposition as they have a wish to be independant and as mentioned previously have little to do with Jakarta. Might be an idea to contact the Mid-Atlantic people and ask how they organised the expedition.? They may have a 'go to guy' in the Govt. , but hard to know if whoever that was is still in that position..and how much the cost of co operation has gone up in the meantime.
Dave
Oh, and there are no crocs in N.Z.
I can't remember where the P-61 was in Indonesia, but Jaya is a slightly different proposition as they have a wish to be independant and as mentioned previously have little to do with Jakarta. Might be an idea to contact the Mid-Atlantic people and ask how they organised the expedition.? They may have a 'go to guy' in the Govt. , but hard to know if whoever that was is still in that position..and how much the cost of co operation has gone up in the meantime.
Dave
Oh, and there are no crocs in N.Z.
Thu Nov 25, 2004 2:33 am
Dave I already did, and they did it exactly as I already said. They contacted Jakarta, and made it happen. However in Irian Jaya nowadays, you want to work w/the natives, and get them to negotiate. I talked with a guy working at British Petrol in Irian Jaya, and he said that the natives are pretty reasonable. If you trade them a toy like a beat up car, or some rifles they'd be more than happy to work with you.