Fighter pilot for a day
Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:35 pm
I went out yesterday to Fullerton Airport to Air Combat USA for their "Fighter Pilot for a Day" program. Wow, what an experience! We briefed and flew the first flight as a scripted dogfight, giving myself and my adversary a chance to get the feel of the airplanes. I was flying the SIAI Marchetti SF-260 while my adversary was in an Extra 300.
The second flight was unscripted and it was all on us rookies. We had six fights. The first one was declared a draw after 5 minutes of banking, turning, climbing and diving. The instructors set us up head to head again and the fight was on. The total tally for me was 2 wins and three losses. The last couple of fights were a struggle with queasiness as the heat and the G load was taking it's toll on me. It was 100+ in the cockpit. Add a nomex flight suit, mae west and parachute and you get the idea of how warm it got.
I came away with a much deeper appreciation for guys like Randy, that do this every day. It's a tough job, fun, but tough and demanding.
I have a video that I need to borrow a player for (mini-DV) to capture some of the action and will post some of that soon. In the meantime, here are some pre-flight ground shots.
The second flight was unscripted and it was all on us rookies. We had six fights. The first one was declared a draw after 5 minutes of banking, turning, climbing and diving. The instructors set us up head to head again and the fight was on. The total tally for me was 2 wins and three losses. The last couple of fights were a struggle with queasiness as the heat and the G load was taking it's toll on me. It was 100+ in the cockpit. Add a nomex flight suit, mae west and parachute and you get the idea of how warm it got.
I came away with a much deeper appreciation for guys like Randy, that do this every day. It's a tough job, fun, but tough and demanding.
I have a video that I need to borrow a player for (mini-DV) to capture some of the action and will post some of that soon. In the meantime, here are some pre-flight ground shots.
fighters
Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:01 pm
I have not done that at a formal school, but I have heard it is fun. I have briefly flown a 260 and remember it as handling pretty nifty. I have done some mild Spitfire vs Mustang simulated dogfights. I think I would tend to airsickness fairly soon if someone else is flying. Be careful not to exceed the plane's G limits especially if at high speed. Did their briefing menton what the g limit is for that plane? I'd guess at least 4, probably 6?
Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:22 pm
What kind of fights were they? Were they "high aspect" engagements, where you meet nose-to-nose at the merge, or were they "perch" setups where one starts offensive and the other starts defensive?
BFM is a tough business, as it is both a mental and physical game. Defensive BFM is the worst, IMHO, because you start at a position of disadvantage AND you have to fly while looking over your shoulder. As they say, "lose sight, lose the fight". The good news is that the flying is a learned skill, and physically you will eventually adapt to the heat, stress, Gs, atc.
I'd be interested to see how the E-M diagrams of the Extra and Marchetti compare -- who turns better, who climbs better, and who has excess power.
BFM is a tough business, as it is both a mental and physical game. Defensive BFM is the worst, IMHO, because you start at a position of disadvantage AND you have to fly while looking over your shoulder. As they say, "lose sight, lose the fight". The good news is that the flying is a learned skill, and physically you will eventually adapt to the heat, stress, Gs, atc.
I'd be interested to see how the E-M diagrams of the Extra and Marchetti compare -- who turns better, who climbs better, and who has excess power.
Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:46 pm
I think Air Combat USA starts from a head on run.
Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:59 pm
Yes, we started head to head. The Extra climbs better, longer while the Marchetti is faster. Turn-wise, it's fairly even with a slight advantage to the Extra.
I have a video of my first kill to give you an idea of what it was like. My instructor is the voice giving me guidance throughout the fight.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=17291466
I have a video of my first kill to give you an idea of what it was like. My instructor is the voice giving me guidance throughout the fight.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=17291466
Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:56 am
Great video Eric...You did good!!
Dave
Dave
Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:42 am
vg-photo wrote:Yes, we started head to head. The Extra climbs better, longer while the Marchetti is faster. Turn-wise, it's fairly even with a slight advantage to the Extra.
I have a video of my first kill to give you an idea of what it was like. My instructor is the voice giving me guidance throughout the fight.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=17291466
Sounds like fun!
Were they "butterfly" setups? Where you start in line abreast formation, check 45 degrees away from each other, and then turn in to meet high aspect. "Turn in, fight's on".
Unfortunately, I can't access MySpace over here in Afghanistan....
If the video is small enough, any way to send it by email, or perhaps a direct download from somewhere? All that stuff like YouTube is blocked, too.
Sounds to me like the Extra would be the one to fly, then. I like maneuvering in the vertical, so the one with the best power (as long as everything else is closely matched) is the one to get.
Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:06 am
Yep, that is pretty much the setup. I will try and send the video via e-mail. It's about 6 MB, so it should be ok.
Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:40 am
Well done Eric, looks like you had a great time. They were in Kissimmee years back when I flew in Crazy Horse and I felt like Goose in the back 
with Lee Lauderbach driving in the front. Thanks for sharing the video..
Lynn
with Lee Lauderbach driving in the front. Thanks for sharing the video..
Lynn
Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:06 am
Thanks Lynn, it was a blast! It really was the chance of a lifetime to be able to do this. Would I do it again? Yep!
Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:50 am
Awesome video! Thanks for posting that. 
Yes, the offensive jet is the place to be (for several reasons, not the least of which is you're offensive
). Also less chance of us newbies ... 
I haven't yet, through sheer willpower, I guess (two T-38C rides: one acro, and the other an IFF BFM mission), but it don't take much at all to make anybody not used to it to 'release' their cookies! I was darn close myself, both times! 
As a civvie pilot, I've gone up to 3-4 Gs in Mark Henley's T-6G previously, but the first time I felt 5.0 in the T-38 in our G-X "warm up", I immediately thought, "Oh sheet - all those years of wishing I was a fighter pilot ... FORGET IT!" (well, not really - bring it on!).
We got up to 5.7 max eventually - the IFF '38s are limited to 6.0, IIRC, due to fatigue-life considerations. My IP the first time was a regular F-16 pilot, and later Thunderbird (selected after my flight), and he told me the first time he felt high Gs, he himself wondered, "Do I really want to do this?!"
I've got the color HUD film (the entire flight from start to finish) from both my flights (thanks Hacker and Slim!), with full audio, and they're fun to watch and relive a rare privilege. I had the 8mm video cassettes both transferred to DVD. If they gave you a video cassette for your flight, you might want to have it transferred as well. Just a thought.
Wade
Yes, the offensive jet is the place to be (for several reasons, not the least of which is you're offensive
). Also less chance of us newbies ...
I haven't
yet, through sheer willpower, I guess (two T-38C rides: one acro, and the other an IFF BFM mission), but it don't take much at all to make anybody not used to it to 'release' their cookies! I was darn close myself, both times!
As a civvie pilot, I've gone up to 3-4 Gs in Mark Henley's T-6G previously, but the first time I felt 5.0 in the T-38 in our G-X "warm up", I immediately thought, "Oh sheet - all those years of wishing I was a fighter pilot ... FORGET IT!"
(well, not really - bring it on!).
We got up to 5.7 max eventually - the IFF '38s are limited to 6.0, IIRC, due to fatigue-life considerations. My IP the first time was a regular F-16 pilot, and later Thunderbird (selected after my flight), and he told me the first time he felt high Gs, he himself wondered, "Do I really want to do this?!"
I've got the color HUD film (the entire flight from start to finish) from both my flights (thanks Hacker and Slim!), with full audio, and they're fun to watch and relive a rare privilege. I had the 8mm video cassettes both transferred to DVD. If they gave you a video cassette for your flight, you might want to have it transferred as well. Just a thought.
Wade
Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:40 pm
By day just a quiet everyday family man. Why he could be your next-door neighbor. Yes he could be. But for those of us lucky enough to really know the man behind the lens, to know his dark secret, to have seen his crooked smile as he coldly pulls the trigger we know him by his true name (The Dutch Avenger). His sweat smells like 100LL. His glasses have seen more terror then most men have in a life time. We, his true compadres, know that he is the “Most Interesting Man in Ventura County” and that though he doesn’t always drink beer, when he does, he drinks O’Doul’s!
You Lucky Dog!
D
You Lucky Dog!
D
Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:41 pm
Yeah Wade, the heat and the Gs made it tough. I got queasy about half way through, but toughed it out. I think dehydration played a big factor in that. Plus my inner ear gets wacky when I go from positive G to negative G. I could do one or the other all day long, but mix them up and it's brutal.
Dan, you crack me up, dude!
Dan, you crack me up, dude!
Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:07 pm
You're right - I forgot to mention that. I was (wisely) advised to be hydrated, plus I took Life Support's suggestion and carried along their proffered cool water bottle in my g-suit. When there was a lull in the action, I unhooked my mask and took a few good swigs of that cool water and instantly felt better.
Another 'lesson' I wisely paid attention to was the first flight I kept looking DOWN at the g-meter thinking, "Golly Gee - look how many Gs I'm pulling!" ... and darn near I did this repeatedly. Dumbarse!
Somebody told me afterwards that I needed to keep my head OUTSIDE during the fights, and that may help. Let me tell you, the second flight after we got set up for each fight I propped my arms up on the canopy rails and NEVER looked down. UP and OUT, BABY!
The best (and easiest) g-strain advice I used was to squeeze my buttocks and upper leg muscles tightly ... along with the natural grunts-strain, and I made it OK. As Hacker told me, if you wait for your suit to inflate before you start your strain, you're too late! So true. Second flight went much better for me than the first.
Wade
Another 'lesson' I wisely paid attention to was the first flight I kept looking DOWN at the g-meter thinking, "Golly Gee - look how many Gs I'm pulling!" ... and darn near
I did this repeatedly. Dumbarse!
Somebody told me afterwards that I needed to keep my head OUTSIDE during the fights, and that may help. Let me tell you, the second flight after we got set up for each fight I propped my arms up on the canopy rails and NEVER looked down. UP and OUT, BABY!
The best (and easiest) g-strain advice I used was to squeeze my buttocks and upper leg muscles tightly ... along with the natural grunts-strain, and I made it OK. As Hacker told me, if you wait for your suit to inflate before you start your strain, you're too late!
So true. Second flight went much better for me than the first.
Wade
Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:55 pm
I should have figured out a way to take up some water. I remember when I got queasy, my mouth was super dry too. I was thinking how good an ice cube would have been at that moment.
Since I was actually flying the fight, I never looked down at the gauges during the fight. I almost always went vertical at the start anyway, so altitude was never an issue. My instructor kept an eye on the airspeed for one of the fights as I tended to enter into yoyos too early (about 160) when he said I should enter the roll at 180. So he called off the speed on one of those. I think I glanced at the altimeter and compass at one point during the flight home and that was it. One thing I learned from seeing someone else's video when I first walked in was never take your eye off the other guy. You lose sight of him and you will be toast.
I wasn't wearing a G suit, but knew from years ago how to counteract the effects (stars, gray tunnel-vision, etc). The thing that surprised me the most is that I pulled 5+ Gs and didn't even see stars. I did do a bit of grunting on one big climb/turn though.
Since I was actually flying the fight, I never looked down at the gauges during the fight. I almost always went vertical at the start anyway, so altitude was never an issue. My instructor kept an eye on the airspeed for one of the fights as I tended to enter into yoyos too early (about 160) when he said I should enter the roll at 180. So he called off the speed on one of those. I think I glanced at the altimeter and compass at one point during the flight home and that was it. One thing I learned from seeing someone else's video when I first walked in was never take your eye off the other guy. You lose sight of him and you will be toast.
I wasn't wearing a G suit, but knew from years ago how to counteract the effects (stars, gray tunnel-vision, etc). The thing that surprised me the most is that I pulled 5+ Gs and didn't even see stars. I did do a bit of grunting on one big climb/turn though.