Warbird Information Exchange

The discussion about White Lightning in another thread got me thinking. Why is it so important that every restored warbird be painted in a scheme to represent a former scheme worn by an airframe of that type? OK... I accept the major purpose of warbirds is not just entertainment at airshow, but rather education about the past, and the importance of the conflicts in which these aircraft participated.

However... Some of the paint schemes of the former racers of the past and GA wabirds in general are rather impressive. I really likely one of the black and yellow checkerboard Mustang racers. How offensive would it be if a warbird was operated and displayed on airshow scene in a rather sporting looking paint scheme that is definitely non-military.

I would very much like to see a debate here on the subject. Does anyone out there have something to say?

Mike

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Mike R. Henniger
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Do you want to find locations of displayed, stored or active aircraft? Then start with the The Locator.
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My toughts on that have always been, you own it, paint it anyway you want.

I think former racing schemes, especially from the immediate post-war era are as valid a choice as a military one. The air races are a part of aviation history and should be remembered and taught as well. Now I'm not saying paint a B-17 up in some bogus race scheme but if the type flew in the races then i consider it a vaild choice for a current warbird.

and I agree, some of the schemes were beautiful, my favorite being this one:

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Hi Mike,
Any owner has the right to paint 'his' aircraft pink with green spots, if thats his decision, it certainly wouldn't stop me looking or even following that airframes progress.

The Hunter 'MisDemeanor' is a good case in point where the owner painted it in a sunburst scheme which while dramatic and does accentuate the 'frame, isn't my thing.



In the case of the Sea Vixen, Red Bull's sponsorship has obviously kept the old girl flying and I will always applaud such moves but again, the finished scheme is not my thing.



To make an assumption lets say that one day, the CWH can no longer afford to keep their Lancaster flying without major sponsorship and to secure that sponsorship the airframe has to be painted in a similar manor to that as currently employed on the Sea Vixen.

We all hope such a time (for any airframe) never arrives but if it does, who are we, to deride the owner's decision, as it would ensure that she remained airworthy and would allow thousands of people to witness her in her proper enviroment but .....

My only defence is that my personal preference is towards representative schemes (as opposed to non-representative) and in the case of military aircraft, if a discrete nose artwork is employed, the sponsor would still get their coverage and everybody wins.

In closing, its not my money and I would rather look at MisDemeanor and the Sea Vixen as they are today than not see them flying.

What, me, sit on the fence, NEVER..........

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...and pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in Space cos there's bugger all down here on Earth!

I'll take Military markings on a warbirds any day.

I’ve never really been a fan of Lefty’s paint job on his P-38 but that paint job as become a huge part of that airframes history now. So should it be repainted, that is a hard one?

I like the F2G #57 in it’s red racing colors. I think that it is in the colors it should be in. That is the history of that F2G and really all of the super corsairs. Their mark was in the racing circuit, not combat.

I remember B-17s flying in the late 80’s in the fire bomber colors; it just didn’t work for me.

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www.tailhookstudio.com

I think it all boils down to character. The aircraft from WW2 all had character with their D-Day stripes, Stars and Bars, Roundels, number of kills painted on the side and etc etc. Names and Nose art plays a big part of it because they were the most memorable. I don't think that if Memphis Belle didn't have nose art or a name that she would be rememberd like she is. She would have end up as statistic as being the first to complete her tour in the history books. Now for racers I belive the same thing. Alot racer made their mark in history not in combat but in the races. Also you have to look at what bigger piece of history they represent. Very few warbirds flying flew in combat, but to view the WW2 history the remaining P-51, P-40, P-47, FG-1, B-17 and so forth are painted as if they had participated in the fighting. And there is nothing wrong with that. I think the racers should be preserved as they are. It would be shame if RareBear were bought and converted back to military garb because then the actual piece of history is lost in what it made it's mark on.
Now on a side note I would like to see Warbirds paint extremely orginal paint jobs. With all the oils stains, paint chips and wear marks. Would be nice to see the owners get away from the high-dollar, high-gloss paint jobs and go with OE-Type paint. Some are of course, painted originally, like Glacier Girl and a couple others. But thats me

Shay

HI: WOW THIS HAS BEEN A HOT TOPIC MANY TIMES,WHAT MAKES IT INTERESTING IS ALL OF THE DIFFERENT OPINIONS!IT SEEMS THAT THERE ARE 2 ISSUES HERE #1 THE OWNERS CHOICE OF WHAT HE WANTS VS. THE HISTORY OF THE AIRFRAME/A/C HISTORY.SO MANY A/C THAT SURVIVE TODAY ARE AIRFRAMES THAT WERE AS LOW TIME AS POSSIBLE WHEN THEY WERE PURCHASED FROM THE WAR ASSETS DEPT.NO FORE THOUGHT ABOUT THE COMBAT HISTORY OF THE A/C WAS AN ISSUE ,IT WAS MORE HOW MANY HOURS REMAIN BEFORE O/H.THIS LEAVES US TODAY WITH VERY FEW REMAINING HISTORIC COMBAT AIRFRAMES.THANKS TO THE PHOTOGRAPHIC EFFORTS DURING THE WAR WE HAVE A VERY RICH SOURCE OF OUR AVIATION HISTORY WHICH HAS BEEN WELL DOCUMENTED.THEN THERE IS THE POST WAR USE OF THESE A/C,MANY SURVIVED YEARS WORKING AS TANKERS,SPRAYERS,FREIGHTERS,V.I.P. TRANSPORTS,PERSONAL TRANSPORTS,RACERS,ROAD SIDE DISPLAYS, OTHERS STORED AWAY IN BARNS OR SHEDS,WRECK RECOVERIES,ECT. THEY ALL HAVE AN INTERESTING HISTORY.ALL ONE NEEDS TO DO IS LOOK AT SOME OF THE EARLY CALENDERS,MAGAZINE ARTICALS,AND PHOTOS OF THE PAINT JOBS AND RESTORATIONS COMPAIRED TO THE CURRENT STANDARDS, WE HAVE CAME ALONG WAY IN THE EFFORTS TO RETURN THEM TO ORIGINAL WW2 CONDITION INCLUEDING RADIOS,TURRETS, CREW STATIONS,AUTHENTIC PAINT COLORS AND MARKINGS,WHEN DONE RIGHT CAN CREATE A TIME CAPSULE OF A TIME GONE BYE DOWN TO THE FINEST DETAILS.SOME OF THE FORMER RACERS HAVE BEEN RESTORED IN THE LAST FEW YEARS.IT IS A INCREADIBLE SIGHT TO SEE A BEE GEE OR SUPER CORSAIR IN FLIGHT AT OSHKOSH OR RENO THE GOLDEN YEAR REPLICAS ARE FANTASTIC.WE ARE ENJOYING A TIME IN HISTORY WHEN ALMOST ANY SUMMER WEEKEND WE CAN SEE A VARIETY OF A/C FROM THE BEGINING OF FLIGHT TO THE MOST MODERN MILITARY JETS AND TRANSPORTS!!IF THE A/C HAS A SPECIFIC HISTORY EVERY EFFORT SHOULD BE EXTENDED TO PRESERVE THAT HISTORY,IF IT WAS A PLANE JANE THEN A FACTORY,ORIGINAL MILITARY, OR ONE THAT REPRESENTS A HISTORIC A/C OF THAT TYPE WOULD BE MOST WELCOME!!THE BOGUS ITS MINE AND I WANT IT PAINTED MY WAY IS ALSO NOW PART OF THE A/CS HISTORY,RIGHT WRONG OR OTHER WISE ITS REALLY UP TO THE OWNER AS HOW HE WANTS IT DISPLAYED.AS FOR THE P-47 IT SHOULD BE DOCUMENTED AS RECOVERED AND SHIPPED DIRECTLY TO ME!!HE HE. THATS A TOUGH DECISION AS TO HOW IT SHOULD BE PRESERVED, I GUESS ITS UP TO THE OWNER THANKS MIKE

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IF YOU CAN FIND IT WE CAN FIX IT

I don't care as long as the paint scheme is well exectuded.

We have 4 Warbirds with the correct schemes :

- T-28B
- L-5E
- DHC-1
- Pilatus P-3

All the others are in a bogus scheme :

- Harvard that used to be like a Zero and now think it's a Typhoon.
- T-34A in RCN all-blue markings
- FW 149D in Fw 190A-3 paint scheme!

Does it changes a thing? Nope. I prefer to see the aircraft flying than it being painted in military colours that look like crap.

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Olivier Lacombe -- Harvard Mk.4 C-GBQB

I remember reading an account of Mike Dillon trying to decide what color to paint his P-40N (N1226N) in the mid-1960s. He chose a bright red just so people would know the airplane was actually restored and not just an old AAF airplane. How times have changed. The original CAF scheme, which Lefty's P-38 uses, was probably just an effort to standardize on one scheme so the CAF airplanes would be recognized. It was a big deal in the 1970s when the CAF started putting their airplanes in more accurate paint. Many CAF types objected strenuously to the change.

I don't care what color it is as long as I can watch it fly.

We were all a bit disappointed down this way when Dick Thurman sold his P-40K which was finished in an accurate, and correct to that aircraft, Aleutian scheme, to a guy who repainted it in yet another Flying Tiger scheme. I know the boys at Pioneer spent hours and a good deal of research into painting it accurately..oh well history isn't so important to some I guess

Dave

Up front... the owner get's to do what the owner wants to do, that's totally their prerogative. However, if the scheme is well executed, it doesn't really matter to me. I love an authentic scheme... but I also loved the bright red spitfire G-FIRE, and Haidon-Bailley's bright red sea fury... they looked gorgeous! The Red Bull Sea Vixen, however, looks a little silly, but it was still a thrill to see it fly... and long may it continue to do so. Personally speaking, I just love to see an aircraft well looked after, and if that means it looks a little odd, then, oh well, so be it!

Cheers,
Richard

Anyone care for some candy? From the Reno Air Races this year.

I'm more then happy to see any aircraft fly in any type of markings. Bob Richardson's B-17 in former water bomber markings was a great contrast to the WWII schemes and told a part of the B-17 story. If it takes a sponsor to keep a warbird flying I'm all for it. Better then sinking into a tarmac at some far off airport. One aircraft I really miss in these parts is Gary McCann's P-51 C-FFUZ in its' black and white Cavalier style markings. I for one love the markings on the Hunter above and will really hate to see Lefty's P-38 painted in any other markings, it is a part of aviation history. I would love to see the CAF paint their B-17, Bearcat and P-51 in the original CAF markings and do a CAF Heritage Flight to celebrate and honor the people who chose to save and display these aircraft so many decades ago. A one year anniversary tour would be great.

Red Bull, worn out water bomber or Jelly Belly markings I'm happy to see them all along with the authentic paint schemes. I do hate seeing the same scheme over and over again such as the Flying Tigers, Thurman's Aleutian Tiger I thought was awesome the first time I saw it. So many great markings and most of the P-40s are painted the same.

Eric

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The air resounds from the Rolls-Royce roar!
To an enemy the warning is dire: here only eagles soar,
and the last thing he'll see is a mirrored Spitfire!

Hi all,
It's an old one to hash over again, but, as ever, some good points being made. A couple of others that occour to me, after the first point that 'you own it, your choice'...

Quality. I don't care, what it is, as long as it's done well. A slapdash paintscheme or shoddy research does no one any favours, including the owner or the aircraft.

Research. Very few schemes are actually as accurate as we'd like to believe. I've been bowled over by a scheme and then a real expert's come along and listed a good doz things 'not right' with it. OK, it's not the end of the world, but it does show wer've still got targets to shoot for.

Overneat. I was looking at a real W.W.II scheme the other day. That is W.W.II paint, put on in 1944, and stencils etc applied in '44. It looked rough (as well as W.W..II wear & tear which didn't help!) and if you lined it up in a competition it wouldn't win! D-Day stripes were painted with brooms! Yet I understand why we never see stripes painted to look like that on warbirds.

Originality. A late model P-40 in Flying Tiger schemes, a Spitfire in an ace's scheme, a TBM in Bush (senior) scheme is fine, but shows a lack of originality in thinking. How many P-40s fought with the AVG? Yet to look at the P-40 population you'd think that's all they did, despite a sales list and war record among the best. We aren't doing the type any favours by being so simlistic...

But safe maintainance is more important than paint.

Cheers!

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James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com