CAF P-82 Press Release

[aerovin]

My three cents:

After reviewing dozens of FAA registration files on surplus military airplanes, it is very evident that the FAA is (or has been) very diligent on ensuring a legal chain of ownership before actually issuing an aircraft registration. Thus, you have instances of aircraft out there in "limbo land" because "owners" cannot actually legally establish that they "own" the airplanes or that the party they bought the airplane from actually "owned" the airplane.

The U.S. government rarely gives an airplane to anybody. Planes of Fame had its B-17G on loan from 1959 to the late 1990s when they were actually able to gain title to the airplane. I don't have any details about that deal but bet it involved some sort of trade.

Finally, I fully support every static displayed airplane be displayed indoors and fully support someone else donating millions of dollars to make that happen. There are many opportunities for individuals to donate time and money to museum foundations to allow structures to be built to get rare airplanes out of the elements. It's always easier to complain about something than to do something.

Last edited by aerovin on Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

[airnutz]

That aircraft is in no danger of being sold off, traded, or wrecked.

MD, I was under the impresssion that rot is as bad as being wrecked.

To be fair, hasn't the CAF's P-82 been outside a while now...but whose have been
outside the longest?

[mustangdriver]

Does anyone have any good up close shots of the P-82 at lackland? The shots I have seen of it, it is not mint, but it doesn't look bad either. And for the record the NMUSAF also has Betty Joe which is displayed at Dayton in great condition.

[skymstr02]

The problem OB is that the CAF has the title in hand for the aircraft and the USAF is the one making the stink about it.

Aircraft in the United States do not have titles. They may have a Certificate of Registration,(http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificate ... _registry/), and they may have a Bill of Sale (http://forms.faa.gov/forms/ac8050-2.pdf). The Bill of Sale is reguired to obtain a registration. Does the CAF have a signed Bill of Sale from the US Government?

[aerovin]

Does the CAF have a signed Bill of Sale from the US Government?

There's the right question right there.

An application for registration is worth nothing.

An FAA issued certificate of registration indicates the FAA reviewed a bill of sale and/or the chain of ownership and considered it valid. The FAA certificate of registration right now is issued to the CAF, though it would be interesting to review the FAA registration file. It should contain the answers to these questions. There must be some P-82 archivist out there who has a copy of the actual file.

[Taylor Stevenson]

To be fair, hasn't the CAF's P-82 been outside a while now...but whose have been
outside the longest?

The CAF's P-82 is ALWAYS inside the main maint. hangar. The only pictures where you have seen it outside are during Airsho when the maint. hangar is filled with boothes etc. So to answer your question, No it has not bee outside.

I have heared that the original agreement states that it would remain on loan as long as it was displayed by the CAF, if it became surplus to their needs it would be returned to the Air Force.

Key word: Heard...

[mustangdriver]

Let's put in perspective, it is in a hangar because it was crashed years ago, and has not been put back together. Now I don't mean to come off like I am giving the CAF a black eye, as I am a Col. in the CAF, but I am trying to look at it from a fair standpoint. You can't bash a museum that has one on display but not mint, and praise one that crashed there's and have not doen much with it.

[Taylor Stevenson]

The big setback for the restoration of the aircraft these past years has been the fact that we couldnt find a prop for it. We had one side but we didnt have the other.

[Taylor Stevenson]

Also, and I know I'll catch flak for this, any museum that has that rare of an aircraft outside CANNOT say they are protecting / displaying the aircraft correctly. I'd rather have a damaged aircraft INSIDE than a complete aircraft outside. The NMUSAF is letting their P-82 (previously pictured) ROT. Over time the elements will take their toll... And dont get me wrong, the CAF has some aircraft outside that i believe shouldnt, but for you, mustangdriver, to say that you'd rather the p-82 be outside and complete, well thats seems to be a pretty foolish concept...

[mustangdriver]

I don't think that the one at Lackland is that bad. That being siad it is not fair to assume that any aircraft outdoors is in bad shape. As a matter in fact airliners almost never spend a night indoors. There are plenty of aircraft on outdoor display that are kept in great shape.
But we are getting of subject. I just hate how everyone is so fast the bash the national museums. There are a ton of NMUSAF aircraft on loan to many air museums. Some air museums are completely made up of stuff on loan from them. The point is if they own the aircraft, then they ahve the right to place it where they want.

[HELLDIVERS]

Key word: Heard...


Well that would have been from the director of the museum but what does he know?

[Taylor Stevenson]

Key word: Heard...


Well that would have been from the director of the museum but what does he know?

The director of the museum is a she... do you mean the president of the organization? If so I would LOVE for you to send me any details on that conversation...

Last edited by Taylor Stevenson on Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[skymstr02]

The CAF's P-82 is ALWAYS inside the main maint. hangar.

Not entirely true.
After a CAF Colonel crashed the aircraft in a negligent manner, the aircraft spent very little time in the hangar in Harlingen. It spend many months outdoors oustside the fighter hangar on the concrete. The environment in coastal South Texas is much more harse than the dust bowl of West Texas. The CAF's chief mechanic at the time, Lupe Gonzalez, did a great deal of sheet metal repairs with very little to work with.

I was at the survivors party after the unnamed (I won't mention his name on a public forum) pilot pledged that he would personally see to it that the aircraft would be returned to flying status. I'll be nice only refer to him as the Lying S O B.

[mustangdriver]

Key word: Heard...


Well that would have been from the director of the museum but what does he know?

The director of the museum is a she... do you mean the president of the organization? If so I would LOVE for you to send me any details on that conversation...

The Director of the NMUSAF is with out a doubt a man.

[Taylor Stevenson]

Let me correct myself... Recently (ie in midland) it has been kept indoors