The shiny all-new paint and bull thread...

Django · **Posted:** Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:29 am

Actually in the traditional hot rod scene, vintage paint and patina is revered. So much so that many people now are faking it or "fauxtina" if you will. In a similar vein to this discussion, you wouldn't belive how many people get bent out of shape if I bring up that I want to paint my '36 ford. It was my Dad's first car and he painted it in '64 (there is a feature on it in the current issue of Ol Skool Rodz magazine) and I have been driving it for the last 3 years in the old beat up, scratched paint. People LOVE it. Dad always wanted it to be nice. So I wanted to paint it nice. I think at this point I may just leave it for a few more years. Dad has another '36 Ford that he bought about 17 years ago and we're going to make it super nice. For mine, we're going to build a new chassis for it. It already has a new motor. It will just look "aged" on the outside... not unlike a few of the warbirds flying around.

I think in warbirds there can be a good compromise. I will say thought that Tallichet's B-17 looks great weathered. So does Devil Dog. Even though they want it to be nice, which is the same dilemma I am faced with on my car.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:34 am

I know what you mean. I am not a fan of seeing all of the dirt, oil, grease, and paint chips. Now there are exceptions like the aircraft like Flack bait and others of that nature.

Jerry O'Neill · **Posted:** Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:12 am

I happen to like the flat paint schemes the best, but there is proof that highly polished metal aircraft did operate in the combat theaters.

I don't have the photo with me, as it's in a book at home, but there were many P-51's that flew with the 99th Fighter Group that were highly polished AND waxed. This was done to help increase airspeed. Any advantage in combat can help, and once the paint came off, many started to polish and wax their mounts to a mirror finish. Now whether Lee Archer's mount was done this way, I don't know, but it certainly happened to some P-51's.

Overall, I don't mind the glossy schemes, but flat paint is what sets my heart a thumpin!

Jerry

Link to some of my GML pics:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11465521@N ... 238293970/

Eric Friedebach · **Posted:** Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:31 pm

One time I was doing an inventory of Stearman parts here. I knew I had a stack of fuselage cowls. What I didn’t know was that one of them had this on it:

There might be original military paint underneath, maybe some unit insignia, but I’m not going to scrape off that cool artwork to find out!

Has anybody ever heard of Philips? I did a Google search some time ago, but found nothing.

Dan Johnson II · **Joined:** Tue May 04, 2004 1:49 am **Posts:** 659

I think it depends on the amount of service time the aircraft has in, does it belong to the CO or FL or just one of the other guys, etc.

A classic example. 2 Spit XIIs of 41 Squadron April 1944. F/L Don Smith in the nice clean, polished, shiny MB882. Then there's MB858 EB-D looking the worse for wear, faded, flat paint, worn looking.

MB858 had been with 41 for a lot longer time and had a lot more Ops time in then MB882 at that point.

Would the real "Macon Belle" have been that polished? Nope. But I love that bird due to the detail work that went into it and the accuracy of the paint scheme. I can overlook the shiny. And in fact if Mr. Weeks would like to send it to Minnesota for me to look after and polish, I'll be glad to keep it that shiny

Phantom1200 · **Posted:** Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:27 pm

JDK wrote:

Phantom1200 wrote:

America is a melting pot thus there are many different subcultures when it comes to cars, you will not find a better mix of performance cars than in the states.

...and I shall stick to aircraft, I think! Glad you liked the link.

Sorry Im a bit of a car geek :oops:

RickH · **Posted:** Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:43 pm

The CF B-25 used to be known as Hoosier Honey. It was in a desert pink North Africa paint from 1943. The paint had been on the aircraft since the Foundation acquired it in 1988. It was weathered heavily and had truly faded to "pink ". Oh, we spot painted and corrosion treated on a local basis where needed. She had a truly combat weathered look. We had the plane on static display at Wings Over Houston one year and were running walk thru tours. I was working the gate and a gentleman walked up and handed me a twenty, I proceeded to begin to make his change. He stopped me and told me to apply his change towards a new paint job. I thanked him for his generosity and with my best hurt look explained to him the effort and time that it took to get that just right combat veteran look. He told me " nice try, save the money for the new paint job ". :lol:

Hoosier Honey now flies in olive drab and grey as Tondelayo.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:06 am

It looks great, but it will always be Hoosier Honey to me Rick.

O.P. · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:19 am

Obergrafeter wrote:

What O.P. no invasion stripes on your T-28?

Nope.

I want it to be tastefull. That would ruin the whole dream T28B ensemble.

What are you? Totally crazy?

It would block out the big "EAT ME" thats painted under the right wing.

Get a grip bro....really....

Heheheheee

JDK · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:02 am

O.P. wrote:

JDK, ole WIX buddy, you aint gonna like my T28B when I get it.

Sounds grrrreeat to me, OP.

There's a big difference (that some find hard to grasp) between making up your own scheme, or modifying a genuine basic scheme, such as Gary's 'Kilroy' on 'Ol 927' on the one hand, and just not getting a genuine scheme right because of a lack of follow through on the research on the other.

You go girl. :mrgreen:

Mark V · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:53 am

JDK wrote:

I've been told and shown by people who do this stuff that a properly prepared satin type finish can be made that's as easy to clean as a high gloss. Easier at times. The 'gloss for cleaning' is an old approach, that some people don't want to move on from, a convenient excuse for others, and sometimes justifiable.

I think it comes down to how much time you are prepared to put in. Satin finishes are fairly easy to look after but you do need to clean them. The P-51 I usually work on has a bare metal (slightly polished) and satin paint finish and we need to clean her with warm water/detergent after each flight and buff up the metal monthly (this aircraft flies at least once a week). This is mainly to remove bugs on the wing and tail l/e's but also exhaust and oil deposits.
A high gloss finish can in some cases mainly negate cleaning after each flight. At GOML I was looking after Double Trouble 2 (Fighter Factory) and was astonished at the state of the airframe after the 1 hour 20 min photo flight on the saturday evening. It really did not need any work - it has a very high gloss paint finish.
I think anyone connected with these historic aircraft is prepared to put in a little time to clean them so the concept of the maintenance free gloss finish does seem to me to be just a little bit lazy.

RickH · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:15 am

The F-4 is a real pain. No satin there, straight flat, period correct but awfully hard to keep looking nice and fresh. We've had more than one person come up and say that she's too clean to be an operational Phantom ! If we don't make the effort people figure that an aircraft that looks grimy and dirty must not be maitained very well. Guess you can't win.

The grey half of the A-4 on the other hand is a very nice semigloss, it has a nonporous finish but just a touch of sheen. Looks right but cleans very well.

Learned a new trick from some of the car detailers ( well new to me, anyway ) . Take Meguiar's Speed Glaze and apply a little with a Bounce Fabric Softener sheet, use it wherever the bugs hit. They wipe right off, doesn't seem to matter how long they've been there. Buff with one of those microfiber polishing towels, presto ! Good as new ! Also works on grease, oil, black boot marks, handprints, etc....

Jerry O'Neill · **Posted:** Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:51 pm

Jerry O'Neill wrote:

I happen to like the flat paint schemes the best, but there is proof that highly polished metal aircraft did operate in the combat theaters.

I don't have the photo with me, as it's in a book at home, but there were many P-51's that flew with the 99th Fighter Group that were highly polished AND waxed. This was done to help increase airspeed. Any advantage in combat can help, and once the paint came off, many started to polish and wax their mounts to a mirror finish. Now whether Lee Archer's mount was done this way, I don't know, but it certainly happened to some P-51's.

Jerry

Link to some of my GML pics:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11465521@N ... 238293970/

Here's the proof of highly polished metal aircraft in the combat theater. Thanks to Paul for posting this a while back. Just look at the second photo in this link to a previous thread. You can see the mechanic's reflection in the metal.

http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... hp?t=15564

End of discussion on polished bare metal?

Jerry

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:02 pm

RickH wrote:

The F-4 is a real pain. No satin there, straight flat, period correct but awfully hard to keep looking nice and fresh. We've had more than one person come up and say that she's too clean to be an operational Phantom ! If we don't make the effort people figure that an aircraft that looks grimy and dirty must not be maitained very well. Guess you can't win.

The grey half of the A-4 on the other hand is a very nice semigloss, it has a nonporous finish but just a touch of sheen. Looks right but cleans very well.

Learned a new trick from some of the car detailers ( well new to me, anyway ) . Take Meguiar's Speed Glaze and apply a little with a Bounce Fabric Softener sheet, use it wherever the bugs hit. They wipe right off, doesn't seem to matter how long they've been there. Buff with one of those microfiber polishing towels, presto ! Good as new ! Also works on grease, oil, black boot marks, handprints, etc....

That's awsome man. I have got to try that.

Ryan Keough · **Posted:** Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:18 pm

mustangdriver wrote:

It looks great, but it will always be Hoosier Honey to me Rick.

Sans bird nests, flat tires, and ripped canopy covers I hope!

Beaver Falls is the Bermuda Triangle for CF birds it seems!

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