Sea Wolf project

[Warbird Kid]

Albert Stix,

I hope your hunt goes well. Imagine what kind of treasure trove you might uncover! Just remember if you find enough turrets, you gotta send one my way.

[astixjr]

The funny thing is, even with this big pile of parts, I could can not build one single version of any of the turret models that Emerson built. Not even close. I showed up late for a feast of turrets and and came home with the scraps that fell under the table. I can make them more authentic, I can supply some of the small parts that souvenir hunters have removed, and I can probably make some turrets function. That's about it.

The real fun starts when you help guys like Dan bring back a Wooly Mammoth!

[Dan K]

Is the Consolidated Vultee plant still standing in Allentown? Have you taken a day off and visited all the old salvage yards in the area?

Sorry if you have already covered this question in an earlier post but is there any chance of a Sea Wolf being recovered from the water? Any operational losses or crash sites that you are aware of?

There is a small historical group in Allentown that scrounges for TBY bits and maintains a display of them and photos at the FBO of Queen City Airport: The same location of all TBY test flights. I'm not sure I would have any more success scrounging than they. I also don't want to get in their way. They are, however, looking almost exclusively for pilot-area cockpit items, whereas I'm gathering anything and everything stamped "VS-2". We are scrounging in friendly cooperation and have made trades for various items.

It doesn't appear that anything structural of the TBY survived at the plant. A couple of canopy sections have been recovered (used as cold frames to grow plants), but other than that...

To my knowledge, no TBY's were lost offshore or in a convenient lake, marsh, or forest. There is one intriguing episode though: I don't have the details in front of me, but about six TBY's (along with several other aircraft) were written off after a freak windstorm hit NAS Memphis. They were probably all salvaged, but I suppose the possibility exists that a burial took place with that big of a mess. Research really isn't my forte, but if someone wanted to pursue this I could provide Bu#'s and a date.

[astixjr]

So the situation is worse than the B-32? At least there's a Dominator in the Pacific somewhere and one on the Moon.

Are you absolutely sure that these things were actually built? Maybe you guys are getting this mythical beast confused with the Brewster Bermuda. How could a Brewster Bermuda survive and not a Sea Wolf?

[Dan K]

And the madness continues...





Many, many thanks to Steve Dennis for hauling the "new" canopy section back to God's country for me.

This section actually fits further aft, but I just couldn't help pinning it up with the windscreen for a few pics.

The Sea Wolf will live again (or I'll go quite mad trying).

[Steven M. Dennis]

That looks very cool my friend, VERY cool....

A person has no idea how huge that thing is from the pictures. It is one big beast!

Steve

[Dan K]

A person has no idea how huge that thing is from the pictures. It is one big beast!

Steve

Mr. Dennis speaks the truth. Size-wise the TBY is comparable to the TBM. I'm 6'2" and was on a step ladder for the pics. The beast won't fit through the garage door with the glass on.

[astixjr]

I sure wish I had some better images to work with. Hint Hint! If I could only see some clear photos of this beast's turret, I think I could find more parts. Are there any turret manuals for the TBY in existence? Here's a shot of some of the parts I've found so far. I'll post more soon. It's not much but it's a start.

[Dan K]

You're killing me, Albert! You know full well that this stuff has dropped off the face of the earth. I'm convinced that what you're finding is all that anyone is ever going to find. Now I just have to figure out a way to afford all this stuff (and it ain't gonna' happen before 2008, as SWMBO is maxing out the VISA as we speak! ).

If I had more/better pics or documentation I would send it. As far as I can tell, Convair simply referred to this turret as the "Emerson Model 139". The microfilm I have of turret parts is all but invisible--at least the frames I recall peeking at. I can try another look, but probably won't get my hands on a projector to use until close to Christmas.

So NOW do you believe that the TBY actually existed?

[astixjr]

Dan,
I suppose I'll have to concede, apparently the Seawolf was a real airplane. Still, it is strange that they have all but vanished without a trace. When I think of all the millions of original documents and drawings that were "saved" to micro film, allowing the originals to be destroyed, it drives me crazy. We saved storage space in our museums and libraries but lost so much history. I'm sure the Emerson warehouse and factory that was razed in the early 90s had copies and drawings of the turrets from this era but I suspect all that was lost to the landfill.

Don't worry about the price on these parts Dan. Last time I checked, the market for Seawolf Emerson 139 turrets was somewhat limited. Come to think of it, you are the market!

[muddyboots]

have you found any plans by which you can machine parts for this sucker?

[Dan K]

have you found any plans by which you can machine parts for this sucker?

Hey Muddy,

First things first: It's good to see you're still posting. Sounds like you're having to endure a crappier November than usual. Hang in there. PM if you just need somebody to yell at.

Interestingly the National Archives owns microfilm of the TBY engineering drawings (or what's left of them), copies of which I purchased in 2005. As already intimated by Albert and others, the quality of microfilm images leaves a great deal to be desired. On the average roll, perhaps 50% of the images are clear enough to be usable, 30% appear as ghostly apparitions, and the remaining 20% are completely blank. Also, the originals were drawn in a multitude of scales, but microfilm converts everything into one image size. The pic shows an example of an average guy's attempt at enlarging a microfilm image back to original size ala cut-n-paste.

[Cvairwerks]

Hey Dan some food for thought.... You might want to consider setting up another computer with some 3D software like SolidWorks or Mechanical Desktop or the like and forget trying to piece together Xerox prints from the film. I'm finding that it's a whole lot easier and faster to redraw the prints on the computer and tons easier to fill in the gaps on the drawings.
By drawing full size and utilizing a lot of the automated tools within the software, it's pretty quick to pop out a good drawing. Also by building it in a 3D system, it is fairly easy to "assemble" the parts in the computer and from there make educated inferences and guesses about missing drawings and develope good prints for those items.

The software can be a bit pricey, but it's worth it at least to me. Also. manual film viewers are pretty cheap to buy and have sitting on your desk. Just remember that if you buy it on fleabay, they can be heavy, so much so, that shipping runs as much as the purchase cost.

Best of luck, and I wish that I was making progress on my projects.....

[Dan K]

Hey Dan some food for thought.... You might want to consider setting up another computer with some 3D software like SolidWorks or Mechanical Desktop or the like and forget trying to piece together Xerox prints from the film. I'm finding that it's a whole lot easier and faster to redraw the prints on the computer and tons easier to fill in the gaps on the drawings.
By drawing full size and utilizing a lot of the automated tools within the software, it's pretty quick to pop out a good drawing. Also by building it in a 3D system, it is fairly easy to "assemble" the parts in the computer and from there make educated inferences and guesses about missing drawings and develope good prints for those items.

The software can be a bit pricey, but it's worth it at least to me. Also. manual film viewers are pretty cheap to buy and have sitting on your desk. Just remember that if you buy it on fleabay, they can be heavy, so much so, that shipping runs as much as the purchase cost.

Best of luck, and I wish that I was making progress on my projects.....

Hi Craig. All excellent suggestions and ones that I've considered. If I were blessed with a bigger bankroll I probably would shoot for the software approach, but you know all about making choices right? Should I buy software or pay the kids' dentist bill? Should I buy a microfilm viewer or some more 2024 sheet? Heck, Vought-Sikorsky and Consolidated-Vultee weren't designing and building these things with CAD and CNC, so why should I!

And progress? Please. I'm not even remotely close to the schedule I had originally set for myself. But that's ok, too.

Every time I see a V-770 for sale somewhere I think of the AT-21. I give you a lot of credit for even thinking of taking on such a rebuild (I think maybe I've seen too many delaminated Cornell stabilizers. Duramold...yeesh!).

[Dan K]

I sure wish I had some better images to work with. Hint Hint! If I could only see some clear photos of this beast's turret, I think I could find more parts.

Hopeful news, Albert. I've been offered some turret pics and/or drawings that should help. I hope to have them in hand in a week or two.