Recent CFM Growth

[Obergrafeter]

Alan, what was the required dollar amount to have the aircraft assigned, and did the Wisconsin Wing receive the monies from the sale to Mr. Savage?

[CAPFlyer]

You don't seem to understand how the CAF works. There was no money required to be paid to anyone to get the aircraft assigned, only a project plan in place to get the airplane back flying again. That is how all CAF projects work. If there are persons within the wing interested in maintaining and operating the aircraft, then it will be assigned. The only thing the wing has to do is prove that it can support the aircraft's operation costs. Thus, you are right, the larger aircraft tend to go to the larger wings, but that is a fact of life - bigger planes cost more to operate, however it's not the rich folks necessarily who get them, it's the wings with sufficient sponsorship base to raise the funds to keep the plane flying. At the same time, the sale of the aircraft went directly to the Wisconsin Wing with the express limitation that the funds be used only for the acquisition and operation or restoration of a new aircraft, the same as it is for every acquisition by the CAF.

The PV2 is a large and complex aircraft to operate. I am not wholly surprised that it was unable to find sufficient support within a wing for them to request it. It's minimum qualifications are as high (and possibly higher) than those for units operating the C-47s or the R4D, so the pool of potential pilots is greatly lessened by that simple fact and there's no monetary issue in that, it's simply one of experience. HQ will not assign an aircraft to a wing which is unable to financially or operationally support an aircraft. If they did, the CAF would cease to exist as an operating entity very quickly.

[Alan Brooks]

Chris

Hay Alan, Is the TBM the same one the was parked out by the Mauler a few years ago at Airsho?

Chris, thanks for asking, but it is not the same a/c. The TBM I am referring to is the fourth TBM owned by the CAF, Bn 91426, N-40402, currently at Hagerstown, Md.


Ober, probably as bad as we wanted a Wing or Squadron to take on the 'Poon, I would venture that 30K (maybe less) in sponsorship money would have gotten that a/c assigned.. On the second question, as I understand the rules, proceeds from the sale of aircraft are placed back into the Aircraft Acquisition Fund. Old Shep and Doug are in a better position to elaborate if they wish......Alan

[Taylor Stevenson]

the sale of the aircraft went directly to the Wisconsin Wing with the express limitation that the funds be used only for the acquisition and operation or restoration of a new aircraft, the same as it is for every acquisition by the CAF.

Bingo. In this case, the monies from the sale of the Harpoon were set aside specifically for the acquisition of an aircraft FOR the WI wing. I believe they are in the market for an L-5 (I like their taste in aircraft ). A smaller aircraft, like an L-Bird, PT, BT etc., are what many smaller units seek because they are cheaper (notice I dont say "cheap" but cheapER) to maintain and operate, and the unit still has an asset to rally its troops around.

[Lynn Allen]

You don't seem to understand how the CAF works. There was no money required to be paid to anyone to get the aircraft assigned, only a project plan in place to get the airplane back flying again. That is how all CAF projects work. If there are persons within the wing interested in maintaining and operating the aircraft, then it will be assigned. The only thing the wing has to do is prove that it can support the aircraft's operation costs. Thus, you are right, the larger aircraft tend to go to the larger wings, but that is a fact of life - bigger planes cost more to operate, however it's not the rich folks necessarily who get them, it's the wings with sufficient sponsorship base to raise the funds to keep the plane flying. At the same time, the sale of the aircraft went directly to the Wisconsin Wing with the express limitation that the funds be used only for the acquisition and operation or restoration of a new aircraft, the same as it is for every acquisition by the CAF.

The PV2 is a large and complex aircraft to operate. I am not wholly surprised that it was unable to find sufficient support within a wing for them to request it. It's minimum qualifications are as high (and possibly higher) than those for units operating the C-47s or the R4D, so the pool of potential pilots is greatly lessened by that simple fact and there's no monetary issue in that, it's simply one of experience. HQ will not assign an aircraft to a wing which is unable to financially or operationally support an aircraft. If they did, the CAF would cease to exist as an operating entity very quickly.

Yeah Ober, What he said...

Lynn

[Obergrafeter]

Lynn..................Oh yeah what Alan said. Just trying to get the truth out finally, although I heard closer to 40K. Brings up the next question how much did the sale bring to whoever gets the money. Lets see do I pay 30K to be able to work on someone elses' plane that I can never own, or pay X to own it and do whatever I want to do with it?

[FG1D Pilot]

Lets see do I pay 30K to be able to work on someone elses' plane that I can never own, or pay X to own it and do whatever I want to do with it?

Now I think you got how the CAF works. For a $10K sponsorship you may qualify to fly a fighter that you couldn't afford to own.

[FG1D Pilot]

It's not that they don't last when used. They don't last if they sit. The engines have only had a few hours on them in the last 5 years. The one broke a rod.

[CAPFlyer]

Lets see do I pay 30K to be able to work on someone elses' plane that I can never own, or pay X to own it and do whatever I want to do with it?

Now I think you got how the CAF works. For a $10K sponsorship you may qualify to fly a fighter that you couldn't afford to own.

Although, under the CAF rules, you don't necessarily have to put up any money to qualify to fly the aircraft even though that is typically the best way to ensure a chance. There are ways (and CAF pilots out there) who have the experience needed but not the funds and because of a shortage of qualified pilots fly the aircraft.

BTW, I think that the number of aircraft with a flying sponsorship over $5K is very limited. I don't even think the R4D is over that for a flying sponsorship. But we've got plenty of flying sponsors who don't have the qualifications (or desire) to fly, so that gives non-flying sponsor pilots an opprotunity to fly the airplane.

[retroaviation]

Only $3,500 to sponsor either the B-24 or B-29.

Gary

[Obergrafeter]

Now I see how it works, pay 10k to fly a bitching already going hot rod or 30k for a broke down fix it yourself bird. I keep on this site I knew I would get all the answers.

[planeoldsteve]

Now I see how it works, pay 10k to fly a bitching already going hot rod or 30k for a broke down fix it yourself bird. I keep on this site I knew I would get all the answers.

Don’t forget taxes, insurance, hangar rent and maintenance plus the 30K for the project!

Steve

[Taylor Stevenson]

Now I see how it works, pay 10k to fly a bitching already going hot rod or 30k for a broke down fix it yourself bird. I keep on this site I knew I would get all the answers.

You seem a bit stubborn, ober . I am curious as to where you are getting this 30K figure? We have NO aircraft sponsorships over 10k. If you are talking about a wing having to pay 30k to HQ to get a flying aircraft or project, then that plane or project must already have a negative balance. It has happened many times where a wing or sponsor group takes on a project thats too big for them. They go in debt and cant pay it off, thus leaving it to HQ to handle. HQ then puts it up for assignment and any wing or group of sponsors who wants that aircraft must pay off the negative balance before taking the aircraft. Do you really expect HQ to pay off this debt? A common misconception is that HQ has tons of $$$... not true. It is a big job keeping the insurance and utilities paid for alone. So, if a group of individuals is serious about the aircraft up for assignment, then it is up to them to raise the $$$ needed to get it out of debt. Otherwise if an aircraft up for assignment with an even or better account, then there is no charge to my knowledge that is needed to get the aircraft assigned. Just a proposal, and shipping arrangements.

[Obergrafeter]

Stubborn, old and ugly ...thats' me. I didn't say 30k, that came from Alan, although not being from Wisconsin I can't figure how there could be a negative balance at hqs when the Wisconsin Wing purchased the aircraft to begin with. Maybe there were some loans that weren't repaid, it could happen. Just one of those things that makes you go hmmmmm!

[EDowning]

Doug,

What's the status of the Sea Fury? All good? Just curious if it got all sorted out.

Are you putting some time on the SPAD?

Eric


http://www.courtesyaircraft.com/N71GB%2 ... %20Sec.htm

Last edited by EDowning on Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.