Warbird Information Exchange

Remember this thread when your friendly ride-offering warbird organization comes to town, and you're hemming and hawing about the price of a ride . How do museums make money? Some of them fly. The planes earn their keep, along with everybody else's.

That's part of the reason that (I feel, anyway) the value of a B-17 is "artificially high" compared to other warbirds. Sure, it's a valuable aircraft. But its income earning potential is so much higher than other warbirds from the era (like the B-26, A-26, C-46, C-47, etc) that part of the "worth" comes from its ability to make money. Whereas a Mustang is worth what it's worth because "that's what somebody will pay for it."

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Phil K.
Yankee Air Museum
Systems Admin / Ramp Crew / Professional Photo Ruiner

No question, I was just playing with the words.

This certainly rings true for a museum with static displays, whether it is an art museum or an aircraft museum.

I suspect the flying museums that get appearance fees, do movies, hold airshows, etc. have a balance that is far different from your numbers.

I think there is also a major difference between a hangar full of old planes and a true "museum." A true museum (at least in my opinion) does more than just display aircraft. It seeks to tell a story, whether it is about a particular battle, a particular town or country, a particular era or a particular company. Such a museum uses aircraft along with photos, uniforms, memorabilia etc. to tell a complete story. Even then, the successful museums aren't just standing still waiting for tourists to fill their coffers. They are active community organizations that have summer kids' education programs, active school field trip programs, public lectures (often free of charge), special events, etc. This type of organization can have tens of thousands of people cycle through its doors each year. It's focus is not just on surviving. It is focused on establishing a strong presence in the community, a presence that makes it a part of the community and not just a collection of antiques and curiosities.

This type of organization, in my experience, has no trouble attracting corporate, foundation and individual support. While it's not an organization that is going to become wealthy, nor make any of its employees rich, it will definately be able to pay its own way and thrive in a challenging fiscal environment.

kevin

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FOUND the elusive DT-built B-24! Woo-hoo!!!

Small museums can survive on a remarkably small amount of money. Your example only adds up to about $20K a year but that being said it really doesn't take that much for a museum to struggle along if it is very careful in how it spends money. Being a non-profit and not paying income tax is a big help.

I'll use Pima as an example again. When the museum opened in 1976 it had 45 airplanes and I believe two paid staff. They charged $2.00 to get in and if they had 1000 visitors that year then they counted some of 'em twice. In less than five years they had saved enough money to build the first display building and had increased the airplane headcount to around 100+. Of course they did it with some rather draconian treatment of the staff; minimum wage salary, no benefits, no paid time off. Thats why you'll find most of the staff at very small museums are often retired from some other job or are the spouse of someone with a better paying career. They have the luxury of indulging in a passion. It isn't until a museum starts getting really big or starts flying multiple aircraft that the costs go up dramatically. Especially when you begin hiring professional museum staff. Young people with Master's Degrees and familys don't work for minimum wage. Leastways I won't. I don't know exactly what the museum's operating budget is right now but its around $4 million a year and we pretty much cover it just with people coming in the door and putting down their $12 plus extras.

James

I'm sure you're right. I think you'll probably find that flying museums have a much bigger percentage of their money coming from single big donors. In fact I'll bet that most of them started as a single individual's personal collection and that they have remained basically that. One or a few rich individuals who enjoy letting other people play with and pay some of the cost of their toys.

James

Are aviation museums profitable...

As the Executive Director of an aviation museum I feel I have a little knowledge on this one.

First off...operationally or capitally...I will assume operationally.

A Museum can be operationally profitable if...

1) It charges a reasonable admission
2) Offers the visitor a story..with our museum we tell the story of our area
3) Does it well and interactively
4) Keeps costs in check!!!!!!
5) Has a profitable gift shop with good relevant products
6) Offers cirriculm based education enrichment programming
7) Is willing to make the facility availabile off hours for events
Concentrates on the wants and needs of the average visitor, not the aviation enthusiast....

I know the last one hurts but...the aviation enthusiast has a very high expectation level and (generally) doesn't like to spend a lot.

As part of the overall population aviation enthusiasts are a small segment

The general public (by and large) has a passing interest in aviation so if you cover their needs and expectations they will likely visit.

The general public is used to paying high fees for movies/entertainment, so a admission that is painful to an enthusiast is gentle to the average consumer.

The general public is more prone to buy from a good gift shop.

I am not agianst aviation enthusiasts by any means...I am one and a pilot, we welcome enthusiasts to our museum and enjoy them as a whole.

But if you had to rely on the enthusiast as a customer base...you would be in trouble.

BTW

Multiple visits are the norm in our facility, both tourists and locals, but we do some really different stuff to make that happen.

9) You must have a great volunteer group supporting the facility.

If you have to run with a totally paid staff you will never make it.

10) Be constantly adapting and researching to keep the visitors coming.

Just my opinions...love to hear yours

Tom H

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Alberta Aviation Museum
Edmonton Aviation Heritage Society

Greetings
The Texas Fire Museum in Dallas Texas dose fund raisers by taking on Job of restoring Fire truck for Fire Depts and Citys . We have a bird nest on the ground were we are at as we are located in the Old Dallas Fire Dept Maintance Building. When they moved out they left all of the heavy Over head Booms and hoist the Ventalator and Air compressors in the paint booth all the Vaul grinders, berring packing kits and such Pump test room with all the Gages and such Wood shop left lays and saws for making pike poles and wooden ladders. So it has been a no brainer on what to do as a fund raiser for the New roof (over 200,000.+ ) restoring fire trucks ! Too bad that the Air museum here in the States cant get into a coorp hanger of some big Airline and so a simular events.

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Always Keep Em Flying !

Glen

Lookie Capt Jim! Wham! Wham! ...............................Termights

I am on the board of directors for the Wendover Airfield museum - there is no doubt that running a museum is a royal challange. Make a profit is certainly not what we are doing. the volunteers do it for he love of history/airplanes - and many of us "pay for it" at that! Wendover is a little more unique than others I think, we have about 80-90 original WWII buildings here - everything from hangars to the bombsight storage bunker. At the moment we have no WWII planes but the buildings and the whole site tell the incredible story of how the Army Air Forces "grew up". We are lucky in that the county goverment has finally seen the light that this could be a cultural tourist attraction and is helping to preserve them. But we are also looking at how to partner acceptable development within the site - ie - the officers club building (on national historic register) is being restored and we are looking into having a theme cafe occupy the old kitchen/mess area. This will help the foundation to keep up restoration of other areas and maybe someone will eventually donate or loan a plane or two to put into a vintage hangar!!

Tom H.

You sure hit the nail on the head.

Spending my time volunteering at the NMUSAF, I take great joy in helping visitors with all the history in the museum as opposed to just the airplanes. I could write pages ... but no need as you said it all.

Good luck with your museum.

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Jerry
S/Sgt. - USAF Radio Operator '52-'56
C-119 "Flying Boxcar" - Korea & Japan

Volunteer: National Museum of the US Air Force (2007-2016)
LTM 381st Bomb Group Memorial Association

Nathan said 8 visitors a day at $7 not much profit. Are you refering to Midland? Sounds a little off to me. Don't think they get that many.

you start out with 12 million....

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EVERYTHING that CAN fly should be ALLOWED to FLY!
IWO JIMA'S best narative..."GOD ISN'T HERE"
http://www.amazon.com/God-Isnt-Here-Ame ... 0976154706


P: Noise coming from under instrument panel. Sounds like a midget pounding on something with a hammer.

S: Took hammer away from midget.

Hey Jerry

Thanks for the kind words

It takes a team to keep history alive and a mix of static and flying aircraft.

The most important thing though is as you said..concentrate on the stories of the people that made the history.

Tom H

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Alberta Aviation Museum
Edmonton Aviation Heritage Society

Ober:

Sure glad you're a member so you can toss rocks at your own museum...I'm sure they appreciate your efforts.

Old Shep

Tom H

Thanks for the reply ... of course it helps when your volunteering in the NMUSAF museum with it's size, number of exhibits, etc.

Free admission and free parking, and a large well supplied gift shop doesn't hurt as well.

Vsisited both Edmonton and Calgary back in the early 50's while stationed at Great Falls AFB in Montana.

Also spent 18 years as a NJ Devil season ticket holder and saw my first hockey game in 1942 at the old garden in NY. Now that's a hockey fan eh!

If we can help out your gift shop send me a pm with your email address. We do embroidery, personalization, etc. With no minimums.

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Jerry
S/Sgt. - USAF Radio Operator '52-'56
C-119 "Flying Boxcar" - Korea & Japan

Volunteer: National Museum of the US Air Force (2007-2016)
LTM 381st Bomb Group Memorial Association

Truth hurts.