B-29 Trainers
Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:19 pm
PAY DIRT!!!
I've been searching for several years, mostly without success, for pictures of B-29s used for training at Second and Third Air Force stations. I ran out to the Pyote Rattlesnake Bomber Base Museum this morning while the Midland Symphony rehearsed in the CAF hangar, and found several photos of training Superforts:
This is 42-24540, with the tail code from Grand Island AAF, Nebraska, tied down awaiting her fate at Pyote. Notice that she has Hamilton Standard propellers with the silver cuffs that were installed at the Sub-Depot level within 2AF.
This is an early airplane, 42-6441, with a tail emblem that I think? was assigned to Maxwell Field, Alabama. This ship also has the silver cuffed props. The black-belly in the distance MAY have a serial number close to FIFI, if I am able to study negatives we may someday find that elusive picture of her. There are numerous photos of other early serial numbers and several olive drab Superforts, all awaiting the scrapman or returning to service.
A large number of the early airplanes with the 58th Bomb Wing (VH) saw combat in the CBI and were then sent home to become trainers, and some of these appear in some of the pictures at the museum. I hope to go back out to do further research later, and if anyone here has training B-29 pictures I'd be excited to see them.
More later,
Scott
I've been searching for several years, mostly without success, for pictures of B-29s used for training at Second and Third Air Force stations. I ran out to the Pyote Rattlesnake Bomber Base Museum this morning while the Midland Symphony rehearsed in the CAF hangar, and found several photos of training Superforts:
This is 42-24540, with the tail code from Grand Island AAF, Nebraska, tied down awaiting her fate at Pyote. Notice that she has Hamilton Standard propellers with the silver cuffs that were installed at the Sub-Depot level within 2AF.
This is an early airplane, 42-6441, with a tail emblem that I think? was assigned to Maxwell Field, Alabama. This ship also has the silver cuffed props. The black-belly in the distance MAY have a serial number close to FIFI, if I am able to study negatives we may someday find that elusive picture of her. There are numerous photos of other early serial numbers and several olive drab Superforts, all awaiting the scrapman or returning to service.
A large number of the early airplanes with the 58th Bomb Wing (VH) saw combat in the CBI and were then sent home to become trainers, and some of these appear in some of the pictures at the museum. I hope to go back out to do further research later, and if anyone here has training B-29 pictures I'd be excited to see them.
More later,
Scott
Last edited by Second Air Force on Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:13 am
Did anyone notice the one with the large "A" on the tail in the background? I know it's not the same as the one painted on FIFI, but there are many folks that said the B-29's never had them at all.
Thanks for posting those Scott.
Gary
Thanks for posting those Scott.
Gary
Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:42 pm
Here are a couple more of the photos-of-photos I took on my brief visit to Pyote. In the first photo you can see two more of the 497th Bomb Group B-29s with the 12-foot "A" codes. The nearest airplane is a late Wichita ship with Curtiss Props--the one in Lake Mead was produced at nearly the same time. To the right is 44-62168, a black-belly Renton airplane.
This one got me all excited due to the O.D. airplane. Does anyone know where the W-codes were assigned? It appears that the painted airplane is W-60 and W-24 sits next door.
This one got me all excited due to the O.D. airplane. Does anyone know where the W-codes were assigned? It appears that the painted airplane is W-60 and W-24 sits next door.
Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:53 pm
What did the "A" stand for again?
Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:55 pm
Django wrote:What did the "A" stand for again?
Well, on FIFI, one side of the tail is for Agather (Vic & Fifi Agather) and the other side is for Austin.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Gary
Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:23 pm
Scott,
Know you've undoubtedly seen this site, but it lists 2AF bases in Kansas, and associated B-29 units...
http://www.armyairforces.com/forum/m_14 ... ntable.htm
Know you've undoubtedly seen this site, but it lists 2AF bases in Kansas, and associated B-29 units...
http://www.armyairforces.com/forum/m_14 ... ntable.htm
Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:17 pm
SAR,
Yup, been contributing over there for a while--I'm the one who has been updating the progress of Ol'927 there. In fact, Phillip, (walkerarmyairfield) and I have been researching the Kansas fields and sharing info. My primary research interest right now is the Nebraska fields that I hope to publish in some form one day.
Django,
The big "A" on B-29s during WWII was assigned to the 497th Bombardment Group.
Scott
Yup, been contributing over there for a while--I'm the one who has been updating the progress of Ol'927 there. In fact, Phillip, (walkerarmyairfield) and I have been researching the Kansas fields and sharing info. My primary research interest right now is the Nebraska fields that I hope to publish in some form one day.
Django,
The big "A" on B-29s during WWII was assigned to the 497th Bombardment Group.
Scott
Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:48 pm
Geez....
Shoulda known that...
Shoulda known that...
Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:09 am
This pair of photos is one of those odd coincidences that makes research fulfilling from time to time. The first picture is of a proud 6th Bomb Group crew in Second and Third Phase Training at Grand Island with a training aircraft, 42-6380.
This picture is the other side of the same airplane awaiting disposal at Pyote roughly a year later. I am curious about the three emblems below the ship number--I've seen the "150" jug on another training Superfort. Also, in the top picture of this sequence the two "125" emblems are visible.
Scott
This picture is the other side of the same airplane awaiting disposal at Pyote roughly a year later. I am curious about the three emblems below the ship number--I've seen the "150" jug on another training Superfort. Also, in the top picture of this sequence the two "125" emblems are visible.
Scott
Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:27 am
hmm
Scott
I have quite a number of B-29 photographs... but I humbly confess that I would need some insights as to how to identify training ships.....
please PM me
here are three scans from small photographs (contact-prints) in my collection of what I would ID as a training ship - correct ? there's no caption on the back
thanks
Martin
Scott
I have quite a number of B-29 photographs... but I humbly confess that I would need some insights as to how to identify training ships.....
please PM me
here are three scans from small photographs (contact-prints) in my collection of what I would ID as a training ship - correct ? there's no caption on the back
thanks
Martin
Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:18 am
Interesting collection of planes next to the B-29. C-45, AT-11, Norseman others?
Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:47 am
Ober,
Those utility airplanes were generally assigned to the Base Unit at 2AF Training Stations. Administrative personnel used them for monthly flight time, instrument checkrides, etc, in addition to running from station to station and to Colorado Springs for visits to Headquarters. The Bomb Groups during the B-29 period at first had to use B-17s to train with until enough B-29s became available. As more Superforts were assigned to the training role, a few B-17s were retained for Group utility use. Another interesting airplane assigned to 2AF Phase Bases was the AT-23, or, in some cases, standard B-26s used as tow-tugs. A-25s were usually, but not always, assigned as well.
Martin,
Those photos definitely are of a trainer. The giveaway in the early period of B-29 Phase Training is the last three digits of the serial number being repeated above the serial on the tail. The letters and geometric shapes came later, and that is the information I've not found records of as yet. Another giveaway to early training ships is the five-digit serial (26_ _ _) on many 2AF pictures. These were early Boeing Wichita airplanes that either never went overseas or went to the CBI with the 58th Wing and were later sent home as War Wearys. The earliest airplanes lacked a center fuel cell that later production incorporated, and these were rotated home from the CBI when the longer ranged aircraft were available to replace them.
I'll PM you today,
Scott
Those utility airplanes were generally assigned to the Base Unit at 2AF Training Stations. Administrative personnel used them for monthly flight time, instrument checkrides, etc, in addition to running from station to station and to Colorado Springs for visits to Headquarters. The Bomb Groups during the B-29 period at first had to use B-17s to train with until enough B-29s became available. As more Superforts were assigned to the training role, a few B-17s were retained for Group utility use. Another interesting airplane assigned to 2AF Phase Bases was the AT-23, or, in some cases, standard B-26s used as tow-tugs. A-25s were usually, but not always, assigned as well.
Martin,
Those photos definitely are of a trainer. The giveaway in the early period of B-29 Phase Training is the last three digits of the serial number being repeated above the serial on the tail. The letters and geometric shapes came later, and that is the information I've not found records of as yet. Another giveaway to early training ships is the five-digit serial (26_ _ _) on many 2AF pictures. These were early Boeing Wichita airplanes that either never went overseas or went to the CBI with the 58th Wing and were later sent home as War Wearys. The earliest airplanes lacked a center fuel cell that later production incorporated, and these were rotated home from the CBI when the longer ranged aircraft were available to replace them.
I'll PM you today,
Scott
Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:14 pm
Since were talking B-29's...and I don't know squat about the technicals on them...
I have these two shots from Lowry AFB @ 1949. (Taken from small photos as well)
I'm guessing these are ready for Korea, WWII Vets?
I have these two shots from Lowry AFB @ 1949. (Taken from small photos as well)
I'm guessing these are ready for Korea, WWII Vets?
Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:21 pm
Oops, I missed a couple of details that give away the time frame in Martin's photos--the 20MM tail cannon is still installed. A T.O. was issued later on that removed the cannon on all B-29s, so this picture was probably taken in the summer or fall of '44. One interesting thing about some of these old trainer aircraft is that the nose wheel hubcaps were retained right up to the end of the war. If I had been in Second Echelon Maintenance doing tire changes I'd have probably pitched them in the garbage. 
A veteran mechanic told me they usually got "lost" 
out on Tinian and Saipan unless they had artwork on them. At some point they simply eliminated the wheel covers in production, but I don't know the serial number break when that occurred.
Scott
A veteran mechanic told me they usually got "lost" out on Tinian and Saipan unless they had artwork on them. At some point they simply eliminated the wheel covers in production, but I don't know the serial number break when that occurred.
Scott
Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:49 pm
Zane,
Those Lowry shots are pretty darned rare. There wasn't a lot of fanfare or interest in the clunky old B-29 after the B-36 and jet bombers started making news. I am not familiar with the assignment of tail codes after '46 or so, but the Circle R, I assume, was still assigned to the 6th Bomb Group when your photos were taken. The 6th had rotated back to the CONUS in October of '48 from duty at Kadena, Okinawa, and their next station appears to have been Walker AFB, NM., but that was in '51. Perhaps they spent the missing time at Lowry? Cool pics regardless of the circumstances.
Scott
Those Lowry shots are pretty darned rare. There wasn't a lot of fanfare or interest in the clunky old B-29 after the B-36 and jet bombers started making news. I am not familiar with the assignment of tail codes after '46 or so, but the Circle R, I assume, was still assigned to the 6th Bomb Group when your photos were taken. The 6th had rotated back to the CONUS in October of '48 from duty at Kadena, Okinawa, and their next station appears to have been Walker AFB, NM., but that was in '51. Perhaps they spent the missing time at Lowry? Cool pics regardless of the circumstances.
Scott