Sat Jan 08, 2005 1:28 am
LOL!
I am NOT a spook. *Click* Go about your business citzen , there is nothing to concern you here *click*
Someone beat me to the point re Sat images and Jungle. The best you can hope for, is an image of an airstrip with something on the end of it. The Corsair at Bunda? and the B24 bits are covered in Jungle.
I've been in a helicopter over dense EUROPEAN foliage (Ardennes) looking for someone at a pre-arranged RV , and they still had to pop smoke to be easily spotted!
I believe a German Businessman some years ago , found a Heinkel 111 fuselage in a dense wood in Poland. darn me, myself and a guy called Dave Gordon had been all over that wood and not seen anything, but we knew something MUSt have been in there, bordering a major Military airfield as it did.
Sorry George , but even at 1m resolution it couldn't be done. darn me, even standing in the treetop above the wrecksite, you might still be hard pushed to see anything!
No easy way with Jungle, it's a case of get in there with the Machete.
I concentrate on Sat images of Desert or Hilly terrain , because things like Aircraft tend to stand out very very well indeed.
Yes I have seen pictures of a lot of sand , but once in a while you get a result.
The other problem with imagery and desert is sandstorms. You can do an overpass on an area today and see nothing. A Ghilbi blows , and if you're lucky , an aircraft is exposed in exactly the same spot. I know of a Fiat Biplane spotted by an oil worker near an old Italian Fort in Libya , 2 days and a sandstorm later, he couldn't find it. I think Phil knows about that one too.
Libya is also unique in that some aircraft are still there, and as Dave says, the scrappie hasn't got to them either . 2 million + Mines are better than any museum at protecting aircraft
Also, that area is STILL bloody sensitive , and I don't think Egypt are going to be too happy about you buzzing along it all day.
Before anyone asks about Sat. Flybys of Homs or Damascus South , forget it
Sat Imagery is good if you have a rough idea something is there, but it's not the Holy grail
I'm afraid a map, compass, stout heart and Leather Personnel Carriers, and strong research (God I miss Mick sometimes) are invariably the only answer.
Regards
Tony
I am NOT a spook. *Click* Go about your business citzen , there is nothing to concern you here *click*
Someone beat me to the point re Sat images and Jungle. The best you can hope for, is an image of an airstrip with something on the end of it. The Corsair at Bunda? and the B24 bits are covered in Jungle.
I've been in a helicopter over dense EUROPEAN foliage (Ardennes) looking for someone at a pre-arranged RV , and they still had to pop smoke to be easily spotted!
I believe a German Businessman some years ago , found a Heinkel 111 fuselage in a dense wood in Poland. darn me, myself and a guy called Dave Gordon had been all over that wood and not seen anything, but we knew something MUSt have been in there, bordering a major Military airfield as it did.
Sorry George , but even at 1m resolution it couldn't be done. darn me, even standing in the treetop above the wrecksite, you might still be hard pushed to see anything!
No easy way with Jungle, it's a case of get in there with the Machete.
I concentrate on Sat images of Desert or Hilly terrain , because things like Aircraft tend to stand out very very well indeed.
Yes I have seen pictures of a lot of sand , but once in a while you get a result.
The other problem with imagery and desert is sandstorms. You can do an overpass on an area today and see nothing. A Ghilbi blows , and if you're lucky , an aircraft is exposed in exactly the same spot. I know of a Fiat Biplane spotted by an oil worker near an old Italian Fort in Libya , 2 days and a sandstorm later, he couldn't find it. I think Phil knows about that one too.
Libya is also unique in that some aircraft are still there, and as Dave says, the scrappie hasn't got to them either . 2 million + Mines are better than any museum at protecting aircraft
Also, that area is STILL bloody sensitive , and I don't think Egypt are going to be too happy about you buzzing along it all day.
Before anyone asks about Sat. Flybys of Homs or Damascus South , forget it
Sat Imagery is good if you have a rough idea something is there, but it's not the Holy grail
I'm afraid a map, compass, stout heart and Leather Personnel Carriers, and strong research (God I miss Mick sometimes)
are invariably the only answer.
Regards
Tony
Last edited by Tony on Sat Jan 08, 2005 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sat Jan 08, 2005 1:36 am
Not dissappointing:
I just found a satellite image of Morotai Airport. It is HUGE! Take a look at www.globexplorer.com. Do a search on Indonesia. Zoom in on Morotai on the South end. It still looks the same!
Chris
I just found a satellite image of Morotai Airport. It is HUGE! Take a look at www.globexplorer.com. Do a search on Indonesia. Zoom in on Morotai on the South end. It still looks the same!
Chris
Sat Jan 08, 2005 1:50 am
Also, for a more detailed map, they'll charge a fee, I guess. Here's their contact # 800.417.7808
Chris
Chris
Sat Jan 08, 2005 2:25 am
Morotai Mania
Sat Jan 08, 2005 6:11 am
Whoopee!!..a piece of PSP..saw that on the 17th Dec. when I responded
to this wishful thread! Saw the prop at the Morotai soldier graveyard...
some shells..and some very "come hither" vague destination descriptions,
referring to "center of many battles" and "many war relics still present"
rhetoric! Uncle Jacks crash-site..a few scraps o' 'nuthin!!! I get better
results here in Texas!!!
At least here....I only gotta worry about 'skeeters, red wasps, and pissed
farmers wantin' my ass fer nosin' their barn! You guys are crazy! Jackin'
with Muslims during Jihad!!!! All of your info is REALLY old...and ignorant
of post-911 realities!!!
Oh yeah...I'm sure the military will stand still while you run MAD-passes
up and down the airbase and the rest of the island! How much "graft",
"mordida" or "presentos", will that cost you?
Your sanity prevailed when you started speaking of satellite imagery. The
photo "stuff" is iffy, but what about infrared and radar imagery?
www.ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca/ccrs/learn/tutoria ... 5_9_e.html
VIR/SAR....
www.nwri.ca/publications/pub2001/00-277-e.html
Believe me, it would be a lot safer and probably more rewarding to drag-
a-fish thru Lower Otay..than wasting frequent-flyer miles on this "trip"!!!
Until the time "the crap" settles down, Dream-on!!
to this wishful thread! Saw the prop at the Morotai soldier graveyard...
some shells..and some very "come hither" vague destination descriptions,
referring to "center of many battles" and "many war relics still present"
rhetoric! Uncle Jacks crash-site..a few scraps o' 'nuthin!!! I get better
results here in Texas!!!
At least here....I only gotta worry about 'skeeters, red wasps, and pissed
farmers wantin' my ass fer nosin' their barn! You guys are crazy! Jackin'
with Muslims during Jihad!!!! All of your info is REALLY old...and ignorant
of post-911 realities!!!
Oh yeah...I'm sure the military will stand still while you run MAD-passes
up and down the airbase and the rest of the island! How much "graft",
"mordida" or "presentos", will that cost you?
Your sanity prevailed when you started speaking of satellite imagery. The
photo "stuff" is iffy, but what about infrared and radar imagery?
www.ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca/ccrs/learn/tutoria ... 5_9_e.html
VIR/SAR....
www.nwri.ca/publications/pub2001/00-277-e.html
Believe me, it would be a lot safer and probably more rewarding to drag-
a-fish thru Lower Otay..than wasting frequent-flyer miles on this "trip"!!!
Until the time "the crap" settles down, Dream-on!!
Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:02 am
Testing
Last edited by Tony on Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:07 am
At one point, I posted 2 photos from the Australian War memorial, showing a pit that had been dug, for hardcore for the runways at PitoeN/S and of course, to create roads. The first photo showed a dug pit, the 2nd showed items were already going into it.
There may well be aircraft still on Morotai, after all, the scrappies might have gone for the easily accessible wrecks. But it is a long way to go on a hunch something might be there.
Airnutz, the PSP/Marsden planking photo link was posted as an interest thing. It also illustrates that the locals will utilise all the spare metal they can lay their hands on. I seem to remember a story somewhere that the Islanders made pin money , by making trinkets out of aluminium from aircraft.
On a separate note, Pacific wrecks is not the final authority on what is there. Most of us have seen pictures of aircraft not mentioned, and even some light research will reveal a host of airfields that are not even mentioned. How many of these still contain aircraft is anyone's guess.
There are still airfields on the planet that have interesting aircraft on the dump , or pushed into the undergrowth, they just have to be found.
That comes across as just plain patronising. If Chris wants to spend his hard earned pursuing a dream, then who are you to criticise it Rob?
You continue your quest Chris, but before you go anywhere , research, research, research, and when you think you have all the information, research again.
Try not to remain fixated on Morotai though, there are other airfields, on other Islands close by. And hell, if you get down there and find nothing, then at least it was an adventure,no?
Best regards
Tony
There may well be aircraft still on Morotai, after all, the scrappies might have gone for the easily accessible wrecks. But it is a long way to go on a hunch something might be there.
Airnutz, the PSP/Marsden planking photo link was posted as an interest thing. It also illustrates that the locals will utilise all the spare metal they can lay their hands on. I seem to remember a story somewhere that the Islanders made pin money , by making trinkets out of aluminium from aircraft.
On a separate note, Pacific wrecks is not the final authority on what is there. Most of us have seen pictures of aircraft not mentioned, and even some light research will reveal a host of airfields that are not even mentioned. How many of these still contain aircraft is anyone's guess.
There are still airfields on the planet that have interesting aircraft on the dump , or pushed into the undergrowth, they just have to be found.
Besides Chris why do you want to go half way around the world and spend money on a Wild Goose Chase Iwould think you would like to get your T-6 up and flying I know that would be my #1 mission in life.
That comes across as just plain patronising. If Chris wants to spend his hard earned pursuing a dream, then who are you to criticise it Rob?
You continue your quest Chris, but before you go anywhere , research, research, research, and when you think you have all the information, research again.
Try not to remain fixated on Morotai though, there are other airfields, on other Islands close by. And hell, if you get down there and find nothing, then at least it was an adventure,no?
Best regards
Tony
Sat Jan 08, 2005 12:30 pm
What I was trying to say in an earlier post is that that satellite imagery site will give you close up photos if you pay for them. Let's try to do that or get some good images before we try to discourage anything. Actually I'm glad there are naysayers, because that gives me greater opportunity, thanks..
Sat Jan 08, 2005 4:17 pm
Tony wrote:At one point, I posted 2 photos from the Australian War memorial
Are we speaking of those photos :
http://cas.awm.gov.au/pls/PRD/cst.acct_ ... &bos=Win32
http://cas.awm.gov.au/pls/PRD/cst.acct_ ... &bos=Win32
http://cas.awm.gov.au/pls/PRD/cst.acct_ ... &bos=Win32
Laurent
Sat Jan 08, 2005 9:26 pm
Unfortunately your search links have timed out Laurent.
But if anyone else wants to find them , type Morotai+Pit in the search box
Very nice reference shot here, note Dump at bottom right of image
http://cas.awm.gov.au/pls/PRD/ump.retri ... parm2=2000
If that doesn't work , you're looking for Image reference OG1934
But if anyone else wants to find them , type Morotai+Pit in the search box
Very nice reference shot here, note Dump at bottom right of image
http://cas.awm.gov.au/pls/PRD/ump.retri ... parm2=2000
If that doesn't work , you're looking for Image reference OG1934
Sat Jan 08, 2005 11:30 pm
I typed in "Morotai Aircraft Wrecks" in the search, and found some incredible pictures of the dumps.
That satellite picture Harvard found was absolutely amazing. To me, it looked like the runways appear to be dirt now.
That satellite picture Harvard found was absolutely amazing. To me, it looked like the runways appear to be dirt now.
Sat Jan 08, 2005 11:44 pm
Hi George:
That's what I was trying to convey earlier. Pretty interesting huh? It said on the AWM site that the strip was made from coral, evidently the local brush never grew back. The runway looks very long too. Those same people at that satellite photo website say they will give you better pictures at cost.
Chris
That's what I was trying to convey earlier. Pretty interesting huh? It said on the AWM site that the strip was made from coral, evidently the local brush never grew back. The runway looks very long too. Those same people at that satellite photo website say they will give you better pictures at cost.
Chris
Morotai Mania 2
Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:05 am
Tony,
Please forgive my little joke in reference to the PSPmatt...I couldn't resist!
Rob,
So am I to understand that Infrared, nor Radar imagery would be of
NO use in penetrating jungle or woods foliage in order to locate aircraft?
Also Rob...Now be nice to Chris...he has stated in the past that he could
restore his T-6 for less than $60K. Depending on the "state" of his T-6,he may have plenty of time for another hobby. Also, he attempted to buy a
Zeke..so he may have much larger plans! Perhaps we are witnessing a
"budding new" Tallichet in the making...to each his own desires!
Chris,
Nope..don't count me as a naysayer! I have been reading much of the same info as you guys and what amazes me is...different "sets of eyes"
seem to see a different story!
The facts "in my eyes", reflect that the military bases are off-limits. You
are welcome as a tourist..until the local officials discover you're a "wreck
hunter". It's fine for their Tourist Bureaus to lure you to the Islands with
the promise of "exciting discoveries", but when you stray from the "tour
path"...off ya' go!!!
These governments read too!! They know...perhaps in an exagerrated fashion...what they are sitting on! This is far from what you stated in a
previous thread in reference to "bringing trinkets and packin' a pistol".
That may work if your a "site plundering pirate"...but I think money talks,
and BS walks..regardless of where one is in the world!
If you walked in the door with baskets of cash and a statement of
long-term investment in the Morotai region...you may be able to "buy into"
the game. The PI government appears to have proceeded in the way the
others will. They will "mine" the artifacts as a resource and offer them on
the open market...or restoration horse-trades may become more
prevalent. (Refurbish this or these..and we will let you harvest X,Y,Z etc.)
Part of their industry, revolves around the pride we have with history, &
their respective relationship we have to that history! So, the free-market
economy may evolve some pretty great museums for that part of
the world.
No Chris, by all means go have your vacation in the Tropical Climes. While
you "bask in the sun", I'll be trapsing-about my woods, brush, and barns. The air is cool here..the snakes and 'skeeters are lulled to slumber... an
L-bird is calling..
Have fun, and stay safe!
Please forgive my little joke in reference to the PSPmatt...I couldn't resist!
Rob,
So am I to understand that Infrared, nor Radar imagery would be of
NO use in penetrating jungle or woods foliage in order to locate aircraft?
Also Rob...Now be nice to Chris...he has stated in the past that he could
restore his T-6 for less than $60K. Depending on the "state" of his T-6,he may have plenty of time for another hobby. Also, he attempted to buy a
Zeke..so he may have much larger plans! Perhaps we are witnessing a
"budding new" Tallichet in the making...to each his own desires!
Chris,
Nope..don't count me as a naysayer! I have been reading much of the same info as you guys and what amazes me is...different "sets of eyes"
seem to see a different story!
The facts "in my eyes", reflect that the military bases are off-limits. You
are welcome as a tourist..until the local officials discover you're a "wreck
hunter". It's fine for their Tourist Bureaus to lure you to the Islands with
the promise of "exciting discoveries", but when you stray from the "tour
path"...off ya' go!!!
These governments read too!! They know...perhaps in an exagerrated fashion...what they are sitting on! This is far from what you stated in a
previous thread in reference to "bringing trinkets and packin' a pistol".
That may work if your a "site plundering pirate"...but I think money talks,
and BS walks..regardless of where one is in the world!
If you walked in the door with baskets of cash and a statement of
long-term investment in the Morotai region...you may be able to "buy into"
the game. The PI government appears to have proceeded in the way the
others will. They will "mine" the artifacts as a resource and offer them on
the open market...or restoration horse-trades may become more
prevalent. (Refurbish this or these..and we will let you harvest X,Y,Z etc.)
Part of their industry, revolves around the pride we have with history, &
their respective relationship we have to that history! So, the free-market
economy may evolve some pretty great museums for that part of
the world.
No Chris, by all means go have your vacation in the Tropical Climes. While
you "bask in the sun", I'll be trapsing-about my woods, brush, and barns. The air is cool here..the snakes and 'skeeters are lulled to slumber... an
L-bird is calling..
Have fun, and stay safe!
Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:16 am
Hi Airnutz:
Very well said, and humorous. We all appreciate that, now let's see a vacation at Morotai airport, a trip to a beach at Halmahera, camping? Maybe, but got to steer clear of hot tub parties with natives.
Chris
Very well said, and humorous. We all appreciate that, now let's see a vacation at Morotai airport, a trip to a beach at Halmahera, camping? Maybe, but got to steer clear of hot tub parties with natives.
Chris
Slipping?
Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:28 am
Hmmmnnn...no humour was intended...perhaps I am slipping!
ps
The Muslims don't eat you...they send you to paradise. Save me a virgin
Chris!
Now that's humour!
ps
The Muslims don't eat you...they send you to paradise. Save me a virgin
Chris!
Now that's humour!