This is the place where the majority of the warbird (aircraft that have survived military service) discussions will take place. Specialized forums may be added in the new future
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Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:23 pm

Manonthefence wrote:The USS Arizona isnt in a Museum, its a memorial and a war grave.

IMHO the memorial at the launchpad is tribute enough, it is a very moving place and I was in tears when I left it.


You are correct, but that is what I would like to see done with the capsule. Make it more of an indoor memorial rather than a display spacecraft. Let's face it, we are here with the capsule. Destroying it is not right and keeping it hid an a storage building forever is not right either.

Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:31 am

I can see where you are coming from, however I disagree with putting the capsule on display, not enough time has passed IMHO.

That said if there was support from family members of the crew that would help to change my mind.

I liked the idea of entombing it with the Challenger.

Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:07 am

A lot of people were not happy with the Challenger entombment. To take the wreckage of a space craft that had flown 9 historic missions (first untether space walk, first American woman, first Black American, first landing at Kennedy, etc.) and dump it into an old missle silo with no environmental controls. The Apollo 1 Command Module would quickly begin to deteriorate down there in the dampness and salt air...

If it ever does go on display, it will need a lot of work. The interior was gutted for the investigation. All of the instrument panels are removed and taken apart. Thats what is in all of the 80 some odd boxes that are in the ware house with the capsule. The Kansas Cosmosphere would be in the best position to re-assemble the capsule. They have a proven track record with this type of thing ( Liberty Bell 7, Apollo 13, and at least one of the Gemini capsules). They do first rate spacecraft restorations...

Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:36 am

I agree with you. That is the way to go, they have done amazing work.

Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:58 am

We are going to have to agree to disagree then. I just dont think putting it on display is the right thing to do. I also have no problem with the FACT that the remains of the Challenger were put permanently beyond view, I cannot however comment on the actual method of doing so.

I am happy with the halfway house that exists at the moment and for the situation to be reviewed in future with a view to putting it on display. However I am on the side of those who think its still too soon to do this and to do so would be somewhat macabre.

Just out of interest and not wishing to change the direction of thew debate, how many of those who want it displayed have been to the launchpad? It really is a fitting tribute to the three brave souls who gave their lives.

Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:04 am

I was at the pad as a kid so my memory is blurry at best - and it was still an active pad (1 year after Apollo 7).

I can see both sides of this argument and it's a difficult one. Do you get rid of Lincolns rocking chair or hide it from public view? Is there a proper amount of time to pass and how much time should that be? I don't know. Maybe the families can answer that...

Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:08 am

For those who think it is too soon, just remember that there are several pieces of the buildings, and aircraft from 9/11 on display already in museums. Where the spacecraft in question are now, is not a proper place to keep them. What are we saying by hiding these? By the time that people think it is a proper time to display it, it may be too late. Also consider that Betty Grissom pushed to have it designated Apollo I and was always in favor of displaying it in a tasteful manner.

I have been to the launch pad, and it is a great tribute. Not everyone can make it to Florida though.

"What happened was sad and tragic, but you don't wear the black arm band forever"- Wally Schirra Apollo 7

Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:11 pm

Some info on displaying Apollo 1 on the CollectSpace web site...

http://collectspace.com/ubb/Forum41/HTML/000041.html

???

Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:29 pm

Don't forget that the bow of the USS New York was made from Twin towers steel :!:
Also remember that Mrs Grissom supported restoration and display of the Apollo 1 Capsule.

Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:18 pm

Mixed feelings, but one thought that comes to my mind would be if I had a family member killed in any machine, whether a famous tragedy or an automobile accident, would I want that machine or automobile displayed publicly? ... I personally would not, ... how would you feel if you had your family members exact cause of death in a museum or publically displayed anywhere for that matter. How would you really feel if you had your father or grandfather entombed in the USS Arizona? How would you feel if you were standing over the Arizona and had you family member below you? ... No disrespect at all to any Arizona families, but I would rather have my family member home with the rest of my family. IMHO only. But there are many others who feel honored by such memorials. I'm not sure I would feel any peace of mind looking at Apollo 1 displayed in front of me if my family member perished inside it. Again IMHO only. But if the families agree that they would want Apollo 1 displayed, they would always have my support. It's their call ...

???

Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:35 pm

Another thing to remember is I recall the Grissom family stating recently that they believed the 3 men we're murdered by the "Kennedy White House" to keep "Johnson Astronauts" from being 1st on the moon. There is some evidence to back that up.
Issues like that could be part of NASA's reasoning :idea: :?:

Re: ???

Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:42 pm

Jack Cook wrote:Don't forget that the bow of the USS New York was made from Twin towers steel :!:
Also remember that Mrs Grissom supported restoration and display of the Apollo 1 Capsule.


How about taking a piece of Apollo 1 and sending it to the moon on the planned moon mission in the near/far future and leaving it there?

Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:30 pm

That would be a great idea! I still think that we need to preserve and display the capsule in a fitting way.

Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:39 am

I discussed this with Mrs Fence last evening, I gave her just the facts and no emotion and she had no idea of what my feelings were on the subject (I was very careful with that).
We also compared this situation with the restoration to display of Donald Campbell's Bluebird.

Her opinion is that she feels to display the Capsule would be unnecessarily macabre, her reasoning is that she doesnt like the idea of looking at something in which brave men were burned alive and couldnt escape. The main difference between Apollo1 and Bluebird is that the Astronauts were killed IN the capsule, Campbell was killed as a result of the Bluebird accident and his body was thrown clear.

The first thing she said though was "what do the families want".

I think the comparisons between the capsule and the steel from the Twin Rowers are misleading. We are talking about the actual object that these men that died in, in its entirety.

Just thoughts I'd share my wifes thoughts with you (I would have put them up whatever she said).

Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:48 am

I think in the end it should mainly be the family's decision. But they are for displaying it. My point is that leaving it in a storage facility is not good for anyone.
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