My favorite P-40!

[bdk]

Is that the same P-40 that is in the San Diego Air Museum now??

The San Diego bird used to belong to Flying Tigers airline.

[John-Curtiss Paul]

Tom Camp's (Gil Macy's) E model.

[Jack Cook]

The San Diego bird used to belong to Flying Tigers airline.

Then Fred Smith ie Fed Ex then to SD. Is it on loan or donated?

I agree with Jack on this... I'm sorry Bill, but Jeff did not have permission from the owner of the P-38 to fly his airplane, that call was made from another individual. Period. I do not think it's fair to imply that the owner did not gripe until Jeff destroyed his airplane. Bruce (owner) held onto those projects for decades and loved them dearly. The deal was made to get two examples in the air (not going into specifics) and Jeff was totally out of line to fly Bruce's P-38 without his permission. What if one of us took your airplane out for a spin? (no pun intended) without your permission?

??????, who, what, how?????? ..... How on earth could you possibly take someone's P-38 out for a joy ride without the owner's permission? ... there MUST be an awful lot of information here missing that, not only I do not know, but none of my business. If someone even remotely tried to take my little Globe Swift out for a spin without my permission, not only would that person spend time in a hospital bed if I got my hands on them, but would also spend time in the "gray bar" hotel. How could you own an expensive airplane like a P-38 and have keys to it sitting around where someone could get to them. Or worse, how could you have someone working for you that would allow someone else to fly your P-38 without your permission? .... there MUST be a lot here that's mis-understood by us little people ..... ??????

[Jack Cook]

there MUST be a lot here that's mis-understood by us little people ..... ??????

No not really pretty much B&W like the old TV I used to watch 'SEa Hunt' on years ago

[hang the expense]

John-Paul, You are absolutley correct as far as i am concerned.Please tell your dad Tom Wilson said hello.

[Bill Greenwood]

John Paul, I may be wrong about the permission part. However did not Jeff already fly the owners other P-38 and make a video of that or was it a different owner? How long between the first and second flight. Anyway that is not the part I was focusing on.
What I don't agree with was the idea that Jeff was a poor pilot. Not perfect, but good, and I say that from having flown with him.
Also Jacks post sort of gives the impression that Jeff just hopped in the 38 cold with no prep. Now, as I understand it he may not have been legal due to the weight/type rating thing, but there is no evidence that he did not prepare to fly the 38, and if fact had already flown one.
And you say "Bruce dearly loved these planes and wanted to get them back in the air and made deal to have 2 of them flown". So who did he think was flying them? I don't think Jeff stole someones plane, if he did not have the owners permission, then I assume someone was controlling the plane for the owner and gave permission. I am sort of guessing, but I'll bet had Jeff flown without incident and gotten photos and publicity for the owner there would have not been any complaint.

Last edited by Bill Greenwood on Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[bdk]

John-Paul, You are absolutley correct as far as i am concerned.Please tell your dad Tom Wilson said hello.

The same Tom Wilson that ate the bug he found in his salad at Flo's?

[hang the expense]

One in the same and it was a spider to be precise.

[Jack Cook]

Sound like my kind of place.
Do they clean the silverware or just wipe it off?

[hang the expense]

They have silverware?.Wow.They are coming along are'nt they?

[Jack Cook]

It's becoming much clearer now

or is it

[John-Curtiss Paul]

I understand your personal feelings Bill. I grew up watching my Dad's friend's and eventually my own friends and mentors die in this business. It's a stark reminder of the consequences of allowing yourself to be distracted no matter how much experience a one has. Or even a momentary lapse in judgment. If Jeff had simply switched tanks (several possible factors here), than he might be here today. None of us are immune to a brain fart or being a dumbass at times.

I think that you kind of hit the nail right on the head of the problem here. Jeff always seemed to have a video or article or something of that nature to record his "experience" in those airplanes. Watch closely the take-off portion of the P-40 check out video. What is he fixated on during lift-off?

I know that many wrong decisions were made during this (P-38) event that we could all learn from (I have) if looked at objectively.

No matter what all the facts and opinions show, the most tragic part of this whole mess is that Jeff's Dad watched his son get killed right in front of him while in Jeff's mind, he probably wanted nothing more than to just make his old man proud.

[John-Curtiss Paul]

A last Comment from me..... One person did not own both airplanes. Bruce Pruett had collected P-38 parts for literally decades and was not himself a restorer. He held these P-38's very closely to his heart and dreamed of seeing one fly. NOBODY could get Bruce to part with ANY of his P-38 stuff even though it just sat on his property for decades. He loved these P-38's and many of you understand that passion I'm talking about. After many years he made a deal with an individual (who is VERY highly respected in this industry) in which 2 P-38's would be restored...the original owner owning one and the other owning the second. This deal was upheld and there were two beautiful P-38's returned to the sky and Bruce Pruett's dream of 30 some-odd years of seeing his P-38's in the air was realized. Albeit now, he only owned one of them. I can't comment on the rest anymore than I already have, but needless to say, one P-38 went in, and it was the one that Bruce owned. His life-long dream as well as a man's life was lost. (no disrespect, obviously we all wish both P-38's and pilot were still here).

In addition, I think that most of us think it's fun to be in the magazines and such, but none of us would allow an unqualified pilot to take our aircraft up
with or without our permission just to see it in a magazine or get some publicity.

[Bill Greenwood]

John Curtis, it is not just my feelings about Jeff, if you can go back to my post and if you can answer my specific questions. Who owned the P-38 that Jeff flew before, the one in the video? How long in between that flight and this one? Was it the same owner?
Finall, I thought of another angle. The owner probably had insurance, liability at least ,if not hull. I assume there was a "named pilot" for the plane. If Jeff WAS ADDED to the policy, then a reasonable conclusion would be that Jeff had permission from the policyholder to fly the plane. So what is the truth here, what are the facts.? And I realize it might be more complex, the policy might be held by the Museum, except they did not own the aircraft. It also could have an "open pilot clause" to cover any pilot that met certain qulifications.
As for as switching tanks, it may not be that simple, he may have been out of fuel.. Somewhere I have the accident report, I'll try to look it up.