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Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:25 pm
Posts: 2760
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bipe215 wrote: warbird1 wrote: gary1954 wrote: Is it really "Necessary" to roll the B-25 beyond 90 degrees, or even to 90 degrees if actually unwarranted. Does this not fall into "unusual attitude", Personally, I cannot see intentionally placing an aircraft in an unusual attitude unless accompained by a CFI (but this is just my opinion) The Mitchell sounded sweet though, saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaweeeeeeet  That's what happens when you get big-headed pilots who try to "outdo" everyone else just to stroke their own egos. I don't really see it as necessary either, but it's their airplane. The FAA considers anything beyond 90 degrees of bank aerobatics. I don't know what the rules are in Great Britain and Europe, though. I'm sure at least one of those pilots is a CFI. Warbirds are not generally flown by low time or just private pilots. Though there are exceptions, most warbird pilots are exceptionally qualified with many years of experience. Actually, the FAA considers anything past 60 degrees acro. Don't know what the rules state across the pond. In the big wingover this guy is doing, the aircraft is basically in a ballistic arc over the top. No stress and no problem if he does it right and it looks like he knows his airplane pretty well. This isn't to say he can't screw up, just the maneuver itself isn't particularly hazardous. Steve G Thanks for the info, Steve G. It's been 20+ years since I took my private pilot written, so I was going from memory. Your comment got me to thinking, so I looked it up in the FAR's. Here is what it says:
Sec. 91.303
Aerobatic flight.
No person may operate an aircraft in aerobatic flight--
(a) Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement;
(b) Over an open air assembly of persons;
(c) Within the lateral boundaries of the surface areas of Class B, Class C, Class D, or Class E airspace designated for an airport;
(d) Within 4 nautical miles of the center line of any Federal airway;
(e) Below an altitude of 1,500 feet above the surface; or
(f) When flight visibility is less than 3 statute miles.
For the purposes of this section, aerobatic flight means an intentional maneuver involving an abrupt change in an aircraft's attitude, an abnormal attitude, or abnormal acceleration, not necessary for normal flight.
So, according to this, aerobatic flight has a nebulous meaning, subject to interpretation. With that last statement, the FAA could really hang you on just about anything other than very mild maneuvering.
As far as the 60 degrees bank comment, a parachute is required only if you will be exceeding this value. Unless there is another place in the FAR's, 60 degrees of bank doesn't define aerobatics, it only says that a parachute is necessary. In the following excerpt, it doesn't link 60 degrees of bank to aerobatics, only to parachutes. The FAR for that is here:
Sec. 91.307
Parachutes and parachuting.
(a) No pilot of a civil aircraft may allow a parachute that is available for emergency use to be carried in that aircraft unless it is an approved type and--
(1) If a chair type (canopy in back), it has been packed by a certificated and appropriately rated parachute rigger within the preceding 120 days; or
(2) If any other type, it has been packed by a certificated and appropriately rated parachute rigger--
(i) Within the preceding 120 days, if its canopy, shrouds, and harness are composed exclusively of nylon, rayon, or other similar synthetic fiber or materials that are substantially resistant to damage from mold, mildew, or other fungi and other rotting agents propagated in a moist environment; or
(ii) Within the preceding 60 days, if any part of the parachute is composed of silk, pongee, or other natural fiber, or materials not specified in paragraph (a)(2)(i) of this section.
[(b) Except in an emergency, no pilot in command may allow, and no person may conduct, a parachute operation from an aircraft within the United States except in accordance with Part 105 of this chapter.]
(c) Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved parachute, no pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) may execute any intentional maneuver that exceeds--
(1) A bank of 60 degrees relative to the horizon; or
(2) A nose-up or nose-down attitude of 30 degrees relative to the horizon.
(d) Paragraph (c) of this section does not apply to--
(1) Flight tests for pilot certification or rating; or
(2) Spins and other flight maneuvers required by the regulations for any certificate or rating when given by--
(i) A certificated flight instructor; or
(ii) An airline transport pilot instructing in accordance with Sec. 61.67 of this chapter.
(e) For the purposes of this section, approved parachute means--
(1) A parachute manufactured under a type certificate or a technical standard order (C-23 series); or
(2) A personnel-carrying military parachute identified by an NAF, AAF, or AN drawing number, an AAF order number, or any other military designation or specification number.
Nice discussion, and I learned something new! 
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Just keep the power up, it will be OK and don't get slow. I have been rolled hard in the Hawker behind a 757, you just have to stay with it and fly the A/C.....