Boeing Tanker Protest Sustained!!!!!

[muddyboots]

Your ego is Teflon. Why bother anymore? you've defeated all of our bullets, worn our bodies out, and stolen our women. Oh wait, that was

IN YOUR DREAMS BUDDY!

You know, Randy is right. This boondoggle has been going on far too long. Anybody got a guess as to how long it'll be before they arrive at a viable solution?

[CAPFlyer]

Well, if the HH-47 rebid is any indication, then I'd guess that it won't take more than a few months. The DoD knows not to test the patience of the GAO. They've found out the hard way what happens in the past.

[bdk]

Your ego is Teflon. Why bother anymore? you've defeated all of our bullets, worn our bodies out, and stolen our women. Oh wait, that was

IN YOUR DREAMS BUDDY!

You know, Randy is right. This boondoggle has been going on far too long. Anybody got a guess as to how long it'll be before they arrive at a viable solution?

Thanks! Big, red and bold. Even negative attention is still attention!

The timeline probably depends on whether they reevaluate the current proposals, ask for a requote, or change the requirements altogether.

This is getting curiouser and curiouser!

[Forgotten Field]

Muddy Boots,
God, wasn't waking up in the AM by sucking on an MRE coffee packet great? How about when you lose your toe nails from rucking too much? Road Rash between your thighs? How about when the chevron's on the boot soles wore down so much that you'd slip in mud? What about when one of the snaps on a canteen cover broke, and the canteen went way? How about those nice comfortable Alice Packs? When the rivets popped on the frame, didn't the bruises just feel great? Wasn't digging in in clay fun? And didn't you just love Ham and Chicken Loaf?
Wasn't the M-60 fun to carry? How about jumping the mortar base plate?

I'm glad I did it. But anybody who says you are well paid for doing it should have their urine tested and will probably never understand. CAP flyer, go find some people who were REALLY in, and REALLY were infantry, artillery, cavalry, armor, or special operations. Ask them what they thought about the pay.

[muddyboots]

I never had to hump a mortar plate. But I lugged pplenty of the rounds around, and that darn piece of pig iron M60 was sure handy when you needed it. the rest of the time it was just a hunk of pig iron tearing holes in your shoulder. My left occipital orb is sort of bent because an 81mm mortar round fell out of the rack in the track I was sitting in. Hit me in the face. I did keep the round from going off, I guess.

I had forgotten about eating the freeze dried coffee out of the pack and cliaming it was good--I was always fond of MRE's, actually. Except when it was time to hit the cat hole. THEN you paid for it. And paid. And paid. And hobbled back to the hide with red ass cause it was like a freakin red clay brick. And the Kevlar. Can't forget the damned helmet. 18 pounds of kevlar guaronteed to stop...something...and when you took it off you had these weird lines cut into the top of your head. It made a good pillow in the mud though. If you left it strapped on it would sort of drag your skull above the water line. Some people bough these donuts things made out of soft foam taht they claimed helped. I tried it and it did. Except when you started sweating and got dust in it. Then it sort of rubbed you a haircut.

Leeches. Every damned time i did time in the jungle I ended up with those scabs that a leach leaves when it gets infected. Sand in your eyes. And you boots. And under your foreskin (if you 'ad one) Water that tasted like a swimming pool. And made your eyes water when you drank it.

Yep. I miss it.

[bdk]

Hmmm... Tanker protest and foreskin... How did I ever miss the connection?

[muddyboots]

well, they both concern something really large and round...*at least...in my case they do


you are right of course...should I edit that out? Wasn't really thinking when I typed it I had been hanging out on a much worse site just before...I guess the commentary bled over

[Tulio]

well, they both concern something really large and round...*at least...in my case they do


you are right of course...should I edit that out? Wasn't really thinking when I typed it I had been hanging out on a much worse site just before...I guess the commentary bled over

Nope. Leave them. Insight and such.... thank you for your service.


Saludos,


Tulio

[bdk]

GAO Releases Details Of Boeing Tanker Ruling
The Wall Street Journal 06/26/2008
Author: August Cole
(Copyright (c) 2008, Dow Jones & Company, Inc.)

Northrop Grumman Corp.'s fight to hold on to a $40 billion Air Force jet contract just got tougher.

The Government Accountability Office issued a report Wednesday alleging that Northrop's bid may have been ineligible because it missed key Defense Department parameters. It also said the Air Force had penalized Northrop's rival -- Boeing Corp. -- in the bidding process. The 67-page report explains the details of the GAO's surprise ruling last week that the bidding may need to be reopened because of numerous flaws in how the Defense Department contract was awarded.

The GAO said the Air Force's decision to go with an aerial tanker jet made by European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co.'s Airbus unit and sold to the U.S. by Northrop Grumman was "undermined by a number of prejudicial errors that call into question the Air Force's decision that Northrop Grumman's proposal was technically acceptable and its judgment concerning the comparative technical advantages accorded Northrop Grumman's proposal."

The report comes at a difficult moment for the Air Force, whose top brass was removed this month after security lapses. Criticisms of its handling of the contract raise questions about the Air Force's ability to manage its massive weapons-buying budget. The GAO, the investigative arm of Congress, found earlier problems with a rescue-helicopter contract valued at more than $10 billion that is now almost two years late.

Wednesday's report points to major flaws that plagued the bidding for the tanker jet. The Air Force was wrong in saying Northrop's plane was cheaper to operate, the GAO said. The Air Force had maintained that Northrop's Airbus A330-based offering was a better value for taxpayers than Boeing's 767-based design. If the Air Force had stuck to its contracting guidelines, held equal discussions with both companies and handled cost calculations better, the GAO wrote, "Boeing would have had a substantial chance of being selected for award."

The report gives Boeing's supporters ample ammunition to renew their assault on the Air Force's contracting body and make a political case for running a new competition and reversing the award. The Air Force wants to buy 179 tanker jets capable of hauling cargo and refueling other airplanes in the air.

A Boeing spokesman said the full GAO report validated the company's protest. "It is clear the award was the result of a flawed process," the spokesman said.

"The document makes clear that the GAO's issues with the contract do not reflect on the tankers' capabilities," Paul Meyer, Northrop Grumman tanker program manager, said in a statement.

Northrop now faces a difficult choice about how to handle the next phase of the contract. After three months of intense media campaigns and lobbying from Boeing and Northrop, a sort of cease-fire is in place in Washington.

Northrop has stopped sending out its daily email alert, known as "Tanker Truths." Ads on local radio endorsing the Northrop plane, known as the KC-30 after the Airbus A330 on which it is based, are no longer aired.

The GAO ruling last week is likely to force a new round of competition between the two companies. Ousted Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne said last Friday that he expected the bidding to be reopened. The contract, which is the Air Force's top acquisition priority, also has moved to the front burner for top Defense Department officials.

After Air Force Secretary Wynne and Chief of Staff Gen. Michael Moseley were fired this month over a nuclear-security issue, the expectation grew that Defense Secretary Robert Gates would have to step in to guide the service through one of its rockier periods.

[Nathan]

I never had to hump a mortar plate. But I lugged pplenty of the rounds around, and that darn piece of pig iron M60 was sure handy when you needed it. the rest of the time it was just a hunk of pig iron tearing holes in your shoulder. My left occipital orb is sort of bent because an 81mm mortar round fell out of the rack in the track I was sitting in. Hit me in the face. I did keep the round from going off, I guess.

I had forgotten about eating the freeze dried coffee out of the pack and cliaming it was good--I was always fond of MRE's, actually. Except when it was time to hit the cat hole. THEN you paid for it. And paid. And paid. And hobbled back to the hide with red ass cause it was like a freakin red clay brick. And the Kevlar. Can't forget the damned helmet. 18 pounds of kevlar guaronteed to stop...something...and when you took it off you had these weird lines cut into the top of your head. It made a good pillow in the mud though. If you left it strapped on it would sort of drag your skull above the water line. Some people bough these donuts things made out of soft foam taht they claimed helped. I tried it and it did. Except when you started sweating and got dust in it. Then it sort of rubbed you a haircut.

Leeches. Every damned time i did time in the jungle I ended up with those scabs that a leach leaves when it gets infected. Sand in your eyes. And you boots. And under your foreskin (if you 'ad one) Water that tasted like a swimming pool. And made your eyes water when you drank it.

Yep. I miss it.

wow muddyboots ...thanks for some insight to your past military service.

Again thanks!

[Scott Rose]

I'm unlocking this thread, but keep it civil or it goes away for good.

[cco23i]

This is an opinion from a KC-135R crew cheif. Iknow we need a new tanker as parts are getting to be a bear to get sometimes and it takes longer to fix these hogs after so many years of "abuse". Many pilots we have in our unit said if airbus got the contract they would resign their commision rather than fly a french airplane. Myself the 767 makes more sense than anything else right now and if you all think those crappy KC-10's are going to pick up any slack you are mistaken. Almost every deployment (yes, crew chiefs deploy too), we end up flying KC-10 missions as they are usually in their natural state, BROKE! I know the air force doesn't deal with the living conditions the Army or Marines do but remember fellas, don't lump all us into one pile, there are CCT's, TACP's and pararescue in the air force. Just a thought from an old crew chief.


Scott

[Robbie Roberts]

This is an opinion from a KC-135R crew cheif. ... and if you all think those crappy KC-10's are going to pick up any slack you are mistaken. Almost every deployment (yes, crew chiefs deploy too), we end up flying KC-10 missions as they are usually in their natural state, BROKE! I know the air force doesn't deal with the living conditions the Army or Marines do but remember fellas, don't lump all us into one pile, there are CCT's, TACP's and pararescue in the air force. Just a thought from an old crew chief.


Scott

SCOTT. I am a KC-10A CREW CHIEF. I regret to inform you, but your "Tiny Tanker" is not the great "do all" you seem to think it is. First, if you need to fuel the Navy,(or foreign a/c) you must attach a prophylactic to your boom- and can then fuel ONLY USN(or foreign) birds until end of mission. MY tanker has both a boom, and a hose and drogue, so we can fuel ANYTHING during the mission- including other KC-10s, AND KC-135s. Second, we carry A LOT MORE FUEL than you can fit in your airframe. Third, your newest aircraft is over 43 years old. Mine is barely 20- and still has lots of flying years left.

The natural state of the KC-10 is FLYING- and OUR spares are pretty well available- we don't have to drag the boneyard for bits of antiquated aircraft. My unit(even though reserve) goes side by side with active duty when they do desert rotations- our usual numbers are high 90% MC, often with 100% Mission Capable & Mission Completed Stats. Whoever has been telling you that you are getting KC-10 missions has been lying to you.

Until you've been a KC-10 Crew Chief, don't start spouting your revisionist history- They have an excellent record- and only one lost- and that was on the ground: How many KC-135s are you missing now? We make our missions, and I'll stand by any of the A/C from my wing & associate wing!

Don't call my KC-10A "Crappy"! Not when yours is a geriatric nightmare!

Robbie

7 level KC-10A EXTENDER Crew Chief

(How ya doin?- Haven't chatted with you in a while R. )

[cco23i]

Heh, heh, I knew i'd get you! You have to admit, we do look prettier than your 3 engined thing! It would be nice to do away with the 135's and 10's and get an airframe that isn't over 20 years old. (dang fighter mafia).


Scott

[Robbie Roberts]

Heh, heh, I knew i'd get you! You have to admit, we do look prettier than your 3 engined thing! It would be nice to do away with the 135's and 10's and get an airframe that isn't over 20 years old. (dang fighter mafia).


Scott

Yes, I do admire the "classic" look of the 135. But I think the crew prefers being able to use the B1-1 stand or airstairs over the crawlspace ladder I usually see when they send a 135 over to McGuire Pax Terminal. (that little door near the cockpit looks like an afterthought) I also get a kick out of the fact I have to reach up all the way and usually have to jump (and I am 5'10") to reach the underside of my airframe- the 135 looks like I could lean against the fuselage! What a cute little airplane!

Go fer MY goat, willya?... lol...



Robbie