Bombing In Afghan

[RyanShort1]

For the 9/11 conspiracy folks - we have a family friend who was in the Pentagon that day on the other side of the building. He happens to be a VERY credible individual and was in charge of the triage efforts immediately afterward. He personally told me and others about going into the crash zone, the aftermath and the things he saw, and that it WAS an airliner. Now, I would be the first to admit that there are some weird things about the WTC 7 building, and as I watched that day, I still wonder if there weren't some other explosives involved (I mean, after all, they managed to get explosives into the building for the first WTC bombing and I figure a smart terrorist probably still could have), but for the kooks that think that the US Gov. sent a missile into the Pentagon - you're just wrong. Believe me, if Air Force generals felt like they were being targeted by their own government, serious things would probably be done and said.

Ryan

[michaelharadon]

If our government had no involvement in 9/11, then why has it and the Bush administration put up so many obstacles in front of the various investigations looking to find out the details of what happened, and left so many unanswered questions? To me, the whole thing has the same smell that the Warren Commission does. If there is nothing to hide, then please help the people who are working to fully account for what went on...

[Robbie Roberts]

If our government had no involvement in 9/11, then why has it and the Bush administration put up so many obstacles in front of the various investigations looking to find out the details of what happened, and left so many unanswered questions? To me, the whole thing has the same smell that the Warren Commission does. If there is nothing to hide, then please help the people who are working to fully account for what went on...

There are No roadblocks, and No unanswered questions- It Is SIMPLE. People hijacked aircraft. People flew said aircraft INTO BUILDINGS. Things BLEW THE F*** UP- the result of Jet Fuel, and IGNITION SOURCE. Some jet fuel was splashed over the INTERIOR of said buildings, and ignited from the fireball. IT GOT VERY HOT- Steel MELTS at high temperature. Heavy weight OVER WEAKENED AREA caused collapse- and collapsing heavy weight acted like PILEDRIVER- COLLAPSING BUILDING.

Anyone who doubts this may try it at home. First, Fill your car (And I mean the interior too) with Jet Fuel. Then, drive it into your house at high speed. Burn and die.

Robbie- who is sick of cranks spouting these dam* theories because they have nothing better to do, and choose to blame the government for their psychosis. I watched the bas&ards do it LIVE ON TV. I had friends who watched LIVE FROM THE SCENE. It HAPPENED with NO GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT.

[muddyboots]

robbie, we all saw what happened. I lopst frieds in the Pentagon taht day. My neighbor was standing under the first tower when it was hit. I don't think Michael is contesting that. But tehre are people (paranoids imo) who believe taht there was some involvement with the attacks. They say this because of our contact wit Bin Laden, and our contacts wit the House of Saud. And because Bush REALLY DID refuse to make some testimony. And so did Cheney. tehre were "arrangements worked out so they could retain presidential perogative. And people have taken that to mean that tere was some plot. And you and I will enevr know if they are right unless omebody steps up and shows evidence. Personally I think it is crap> It is an untestable hypothesis. But it IS possible.

[Robbie Roberts]

robbie, we all saw what happened. I lopst frieds in the Pentagon taht day. My neighbor was standing under the first tower when it was hit. I don't think Michael is contesting that. But tehre are people (paranoids imo) who believe taht there was some involvement with the attacks. They say this because of our contact wit Bin Laden, and our contacts wit the House of Saud. And because Bush REALLY DID refuse to make some testimony. And so did Cheney. tehre were "arrangements worked out so they could retain presidential perogative. And people have taken that to mean that tere was some plot. And you and I will enevr know if they are right unless omebody steps up and shows evidence. Personally I think it is crap> It is an untestable hypothesis. But it IS possible.

Didn't mean to imply Michael was one of them- but that idiocy always gets me really pissed off fast. I have come nearly to punching friends over such comments. I am sure you know why- and maybe you understand a little more why I bear such a hatred of those who did it. I did not lose anyBODY personally, but I hate what has become of my country because of them... I figure the Presidential Prerogative was to keep some info they found quiet- which I don't oppose, as we do not need to know everything going on to find these people. We need to protect those who may be going in harms way to help us... I am at the point, however, I have become disillusioned with the current regime, and am looking forward (albeit somewhat cautiously) towards the legal regime change in November. Only ONE candidate I trust, and he ain't from Illinois...

Robbie

[Obergrafeter]

Do any of you conspiracy theory brainchilds ever stop to think that the non-informaion you seek is of a clasiffied nature to protect our counries security? Would you all want to inform the Japanese in 1942 we broke their code or keep it a secret conspracy of the goverment. As said on another blog keep the politics out of this site!

[michaelharadon]

Obergraf-, while not a "conspiracy theory brainchild", I am quite well aware that the government, particularly this present administration, uses lying to further its aims. I would invite you to step out of the flocks of sheeple and step into that awareness the next time you look at information provided by the government; there is much to be said for holding one's government accountable for what it says and what it does.

I'm not saying that the government is, or isn't, lying about 9/11. I am saying that those of us who are aware of the Gulf of Tonkin incident, yellowcake, wmd claims, etc., etc., do not accept at face value darn near anything the government says.

[Warbird Kid]

Obergraf-, while not a "conspiracy theory brainchild", I am quite well aware that the government, particularly this present administration, uses lying to further its aims. I would invite you to step out of the flocks of sheeple and step into that awareness the next time you look at information provided by the government; there is much to be said for holding one's government accountable for what it says and what it does.

I'm not saying that the government is, or isn't, lying about 9/11. I am saying that those of us who are aware of the Gulf of Tonkin incident, yellowcake, wmd claims, etc., etc., do not accept at face value darn near anything the government says.

Also real quick, doesn't jet fuel burn at a lower temp than steel?

Aviation Fuel- 210 °C (410 °F)
Steel- 1370 degrees C (2500°F).

Since somebody did the work already, look at this at your leisure:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... n%26sa%3DX

[Obergrafeter]

Nope, ain't a sheep, but I won't buy 9/11 conspiracy ever. I hate that the goverment (Bush) implimented the Patriot Act as it gives over zealous law enforcement a new tool to use against peacefull citizens, and will do nothing to stop terrorists, already had dealings with it.hate it, worse than anything this country has ever done (next to the TSA, but maybe thats a part of it)

[muddyboots]

Obergraf-, while not a "conspiracy theory brainchild", I am quite well aware that the government, particularly this present administration, uses lying to further its aims. I would invite you to step out of the flocks of sheeple and step into that awareness the next time you look at information provided by the government; there is much to be said for holding one's government accountable for what it says and what it does.

I'm not saying that the government is, or isn't, lying about 9/11. I am saying that those of us who are aware of the Gulf of Tonkin incident, yellowcake, wmd claims, etc., etc., do not accept at face value darn near anything the government says.

Also real quick, doesn't jet fuel burn at a lower temp than steel?

Aviation Fuel- 210 °C (410 °F)
Steel- 1370 degrees C (2500°F).

Since somebody did the work already, look at this at your leisure:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... n%26sa%3DX

It wasn't the jet fuel that melted the structure. it was all the crap the jet fuel set on fire.

[Warbird Kid]

Ok, what crap was set on fire that was hotter than 2500°F?

[muddyboots]

dude, almost ANYTHING can get that hot when it's in a wind tunnel and gets enough oxygen. How do you think smiths heat iron and steal up? Lots of fuel and lots of oxygen.

[RyanShort1]

Nope, ain't a sheep, but I won't buy 9/11 conspiracy ever. I hate that the goverment (Bush) implimented the Patriot Act as it gives over zealous law enforcement a new tool to use against peacefull citizens, and will do nothing to stop terrorists, already had dealings with it.hate it, worse than anything this country has ever done (next to the TSA, but maybe thats a part of it)

Well said. I ain't a complete sheep either, just have friends who WERE there.

Ryan

[muddyboots]

dude, almost ANYTHING can get hot enough to weaken steel when it's in a wind tunnel and gets enough oxygen. How do you think smiths heat iron and steal up? Lots of fuel and lots of oxygen.

Ask one of our firefighter friends how hot a good forest fire can get with lots of wind and lots of dry wood.

Jet fuel burns at 800º to 1500ºF, not hot enough to melt steel (2750ºF). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength--and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."

"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100ºF," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800º it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.

However, the idea that fire temperatures -- much less steel temperatures -- were anywhere close to 1800º F runs contrary to experience with building fires. Fire tests by Corus Construction recorded maximum steel temperatures of about 680ºF in UNINSULATED parking garages. The claim that insulation was knocked off the WTC steel is routinely invoked in defenses of the official story to make the weakening of the steel seem more plausible.

But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832ºF.

"The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."

a popular mechanics article. With plenty of atribution, people you can actually look up and find in a google search. I believe them.

[Tulio]

For whatever is worth:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technol ... tml?page=6

http://www.oilempire.us/black-boxes.html

http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/200 ... y23734.asp

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn1302

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... se.42.html


Saludos,


Tulio