CAF B-23: How bad is bad corrosion?

[MattP38]

I was lying in bed last night, trying to sleep and thinking about this situation. (That alone tells me I NEED to spend less time on here and involved with aviation as a whole ) Being as that I know next to nothing about the B-23 this might be a ridiculous question, but are there any commonalities between the B-23 and the C-47? Perhaps parts could be used from a Gooney (or two) to help in the process and cut down on costs. Second, would there be any interest in giving some of the sub assemblies to a tech school? I know cars are the general choice, but perhaps with an aircraft it would be a win-win situation. The students get the practice in and the Dragon gets some work done, perhaps also cutting down on costs. As I said I don’t know enough about all of the parameters situation, but just some thoughts on the matter.

[airnutz]

...this might be a ridiculous question, but are there any commonalities between the B-23 and the C-47?

Matt, I believe Warbird51 answered that question if you go back a read this thread.

Long story short..No. B-23 is more Bolo than Gooney. Center-section rot is bad on CAF's and
Kermit's bird(IIRC). Bolo bits are nil..so it's custom build time$$$$

Sorry, I wrote a lot longer reply but the WIX ghost ate it..but this is the upshot. Several B-23 threads
around to read.

[MattP38]

...this might be a ridiculous question, but are there any commonalities between the B-23 and the C-47?

Matt, I believe Warbird51 answered that question if you go back a read this thread.

Long story short..No. B-23 is more Bolo than Gooney. Center-section rot is bad on CAF's and
Kermit's bird(IIRC). Bolo bits are nil..so it's custom build time$$$$

Sorry, I wrote a lot longer reply but the WIX ghost ate it..but this is the upshot. Several B-23 threads
around to read.

airnutz,

Thanks for the heads up. Not to harp a point but that was why I suggested a tech school. Those kids would have a chance to fabricate parts and get in the needed time. I realize it is far fetched, but just a suggestion.

[mtpopejoy]

She is for sale at this time. See courtesy's website.

http://www.courtesyaircraft.com/

$50k

[airnutz]

airnutz,

Thanks for the heads up. Not to harp a point but that was why I suggested a tech school. Those kids would have a chance to fabricate parts and get in the needed time. I realize it is far fetched, but just a suggestion.

I think the school approach is a great idea, maybe combined with some old-timer volunteers similar
to the Vought bunch in Dallas to give the project continuity between the classes as students moved
on. Once the 1st one is completed, the tooling and jigs would be available to do Kermit's??

Of course someone has to buy the CAF B-23 in the 1st place. The former Mike Bogue B-23 has
been put up for sale for..whut?..2years now for around 150K, but no takers...and it flewin there.

Apparently, no one loves the Dragon but us Po Folks!!!

[mustanglover]

airnutz,

Thanks for the heads up. Not to harp a point but that was why I suggested a tech school. Those kids would have a chance to fabricate parts and get in the needed time. I realize it is far fetched, but just a suggestion.

I think the school approach is a great idea, maybe combined with some old-timer volunteers similar
to the Vought bunch in Dallas to give the project continuity between the classes as students moved
on. Once the 1st one is completed, the tooling and jigs would be available to do Kermit's??

Of course someone has to buy the CAF B-23 in the 1st place. The former Mike Bogue B-23 has
been put up for sale for..whut?..2years now for around 150K, but no takers...and it flewin there.

Apparently, no one loves the Dragon but us Po Folks!!!

I just don't think a tech school would have the money and technology to recreate an airworthy center section.

The study, engineering, tooling and time to just design and manufacture the new extrusions required are above most people and organizations.

It's sad, but it would take a VERY dedicated effort in order to make a flyer out of some of these airplanes.

[airnutz]

I wasn't suggesting the school foot the bill. The owner or coordinator would be tasked with that. The
school's involvement would be to supply the students to the old guys who could pass on some unique
skills. As you say the little odd bits are the tough part.

As I said..the Bogue bird is a near "goer" at 150K, but needing work for that to happen..still no takers.

[marine air]

It appears the CAF B-23 is "screwed and tattoed." No one sober wants to take a poke at it! seriously they missed a golden opportunity to sell it to the museum in Hawaii that bought that flyable F4F and their (CAF) Zero. The B-23 was online and in front line service in Hawaii at the time of Pearl Harbor. Try finding many other multi engine combat aircraft to purchase with that same distinction.
Second, the CAf missed another golden opportunity to sell it while it was still flyable and there were a few others flying in the 1980's. The airplane is now thoroughly dead. Best options now are 1) find a museum that wants it for static display. 2) trade it to the Fighter Factory or (?) in exchange for some other project they may have or for engines or parts that may be of use on other CAF aircraft. 3) As suggested above, maybe a well funded Tech School could take it on as a restoration project to teach leser skilled trainees how to make new structures, and also the art of sourcing parts and fabricating from scratch like we saw Gary do on Ol' 927. Tidewater Tech would be a good one, or maybe an overseas technical college.

[MattP38]

airnutz, mustanglover, and marine air I have read over your replies and understand both the positive and negative. I can see as how the tech schools might not have the proper technologies needed, but I would think at least one school would have connections with a company who could properly help with that part of the restoration. I do know the restoration would cost far more than the actual purchase of the aircraft itself, and the B-23 is not a well known aircraft and might not be that much of a public draw, but I hate seeing any warbird go to waste, especially one of the more rare examples. The Fighter Factory might not be a bad suggestion, though they might not want it. I would love to see MAAM purchase the Dragon, but with the Widow progressing as it is, their funds and volunteers are tied up at the moment. Not to mention Briefing Time fills the twin engine bomber role quite nicely.

[APG85]

Tech school might not be a good idea. Memphis Belle was in the hands of a tech school 20 years ago and things didn't go very well. Many of the repairs were sub-standard (so I'm told). The B-29 at Dobbins was partially restored by tech school students and while it looks ok if you drive by quickly, it's got a lot to be desired (I'm sure they did the best with the time and money they had)....

[Robbie Roberts]

I just don't think a tech school would have the money and technology to recreate an airworthy center section.

The study, engineering, tooling and time to just design and manufacture the new extrusions required are above most people and organizations.

It's sad, but it would take a VERY dedicated effort in order to make a flyer out of some of these airplanes.

And I can say with certainty, the level of commitment of many(not most- but many) of the students at my school is barely that of showing up each day. Not even on time- they are just there because Jerry Springer Show told them to come. There are very few students I would trust to work to make anything airworthy. There are certainly some. But not as many as I'd like.

Robbie

[hang the expense]

Robbie is right.This is not an aircraft you want people to learn sheet metal from.The 23 is going to take crazy people ,and a modest amount of money, who want to see that bird fly again.She needs a home in a museum.

[Nathan]

If I ever win the lottery I'll be sure to restore one to flying.

[MattP38]

Robbie is right.This is not an aircraft you want people to learn sheet metal from.The 23 is going to take crazy people ,and a modest amount of money, who want to see that bird fly again.She needs a home in a museum.

I understand completely. I had mentioned the tech school option only as a possible means to cut down on restoration costs. It's a sin and at the very least I hope she does get a home in a museum.

[retroaviation]

Everyone just settle down for a bit. We're working on a deal right now, but crazy talk like what's been going on here doesn't help people want a project like this. We're being completely up front and honest about this airplane, but continual negative comments from folks about the airplane isn't helpful for getting it into that museum that you want it in.

Thanks for your understanding.

Gary