FW-190 Glider Tug

Warbird Kid · **Posted:** Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:15 pm

Im wondering if this version ever existed. For that matter, any other examples of WW II fighters converted for Glider tug use?

Curtis Block · **Posted:** Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:40 pm

IIRC, I've seen film or pics of 3 BF-109s towing one glider.

Punisher05 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:07 pm

Curtis is right, there was a project for the ME-321 "Gigant" glider that involved attaching 3 ME-109s to the aircraft and pulling it aloft. Naturally, having three separate aircraft pulling cables in close formation was a near-disaster, IIRC. I believe they also experimented with taking two HE-111s, joining them, and adding a fifth engine between them.

I understand that, even then, the ME-321 was too heavy so they finally added engines to it and called it the ME-323.

But back to the FW-190...as far as I know, it was never used to tow gliders. I think there was one off-beat version that was designed to haul torpedoes with an extended tailwheel, but I've never heard of a glider-towing variant.

Cheers!

EDIT: Just found some pics that are relevant.

Glider towed by three ME-110s...

Gigant under tow by twin HE-111...

And a Gigant under tow by..something...with rockets...

JDK · **Posted:** Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:38 pm

I'm no Luftwaffe expert, but...

Punisher05 wrote:

Curtis is right, there was a project for the ME-321 "Gigant" glider that involved attaching 3 ME-109s to the aircraft and pulling it aloft.

110s as per your pic, not 109s, IIRC.

Quote:

Naturally, having three separate aircraft pulling cables in close formation was a near-disaster, IIRC.

It could be done perfectly safely, but like any formation wasn't manoeuvrable, and problems could escalate quicker than in a simpler set up.

Quote:

I believe they also experimented with taking two HE-111s, joining them, and adding a fifth engine between them.

Called the Heinkel 'Zwilling' - German for 'Twin'.

Quote:

But back to the FW-190...as far as I know, it was never used to tow gliders.

Me neither, but there were a lot of one-offs and trials, so I'm not saying never!

Generally high-performance single seaters like the Fw 190 make bad tugs as the airframe isn't optimised for the load/speed regimen, and the engines are often run at too high power at too low airspeed, with cooling and engine wear and failure issues.

HTH.

Warbird Kid · **Posted:** Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:53 pm

I wasn't even thinking of the giant ME-321! Just more of like the single or dual seat gliders the Third Reich used. But all good info! Thanks!

Curtis Block · **Posted:** Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:57 pm

Thanks a lot James,

Now I have to look into what I think I might remember.

Sheeesh!

:lol:

JDK · **Posted:** Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:04 am

Curtis Block wrote:

Now I have to look into what I think I might remember

Maybe some 109s towing a DFS 230?

Or:

Chris Brame · **Posted:** Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:46 am

Quote:

Naturally, having three separate aircraft pulling cables in close formation was a near-disaster, IIRC.

More than near-disaster - an AC article on the Gigant mentioned an accident that happened when three Me-110s were taking off towing a rocket-assisted Me-321 loaded with troops. The rockets on one side failed to fire, the Gigant went out of control and yanked the 110s into a midair collision, and the whole thing went down with a loss of 129 lives - probably the worst single accident in military aviation for a long time afterwards.

Curtis Block · **Posted:** Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:21 am

Maybe it was 110s I was thinking about.

That picture with the 109 is pretty cool though.

Punisher05 · **Posted:** Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:32 am

As always, thanks for your input JDK!

JDK wrote:

Curtis Block wrote:

Now I have to look into what I think I might remember

Maybe some 109s towing a DFS 230?

Or:

Cripes, look at that thing. Seeing how the 109 is an early model (presumably from early in the war), I wonder if that design helped spur the Mistel idea later on.

Maybe a proof of concept?

Obergrafeter · **Posted:** Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:53 am

Probably a proof of concept for the "Mistel", interesting that the gear is retracted on this thing but with the real Mistels' the gear was left down.

JDK · **Posted:** Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:34 am

Make of it what you will, a quick web trawl:

http://www.lonesentry.com/manuals/airborne/dfs230.html

Quote:

f. Towing Planes

Under combat conditions, the Ju-52 aircraft, which is ordinarily used to tow the DFS-230 glider, normally flies empty. This is because the towing plane does not fly over the objective, but releases the gliders, each of which is attached to it directly, in V-formation: glider "trains" are not used. In operations, normally one glider is towed: three Ju-52's with their gliders, fly in formation. Types such as the Me-110 or He-111 are quite suitable for use as towing aircraft. In training, and probably also for freight-carrying in rear areas, other aircraft are used for towing, including the He-45 and He-46 (training aircraft) and the Henschel-126 (army cooperation aircraft). Fighter planes have also been used to tow gliders in training. A table of tug and glider performances is given in figure 5.

g. Length of Tow-Rope

Tow-ropes are of varying length, 40, 60, 100, or 120 yards, according to the airfield space available. The glider handles better with a longer rope. Runways are ideal for the take-off, but are not essential.

h. Towing Distances

The distances for which the glider can be towed depend upon the range of the aircraft and the weather conditions. With extra fuel, a Ju-52 can tow a DFS-230 more than 1,000 miles.

i. Gliding Distances

The distances which the glider can cover after release from the towing plane are variable, and depend upon such factors as windspeed, altitude of release, direction of wind relative to line of flight, navigation errors, and evasive action. In the attack on Crete gliders are thought to have been released at no more than 2 to 5 miles from shore, and at heights of not more than 5,000 feet.

The 'Mistel' pic above came from:

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/dfs230.html

Note MG42 firing fwd...

http://www.luftarchiv.de/index.htm?/flu ... dfs230.htm

I'm wary of the Mistel assumption, though it seems obvious. Different period of the war, different needs. I'm sure some Luftwaffe experten could answer just off the cuff!

Meanwhile what a bang the Mercury Mayo Composite would make! (Serious point - the idea wasn't a W.W.II one.)

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