Warbird Information Exchange

It seems that she turns up to very few airshows. Any ideas why? Are they asking a ton to bring her in?

I'm can't wait to see her, I hope it will be at one of the shows this year I'm at.

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www.tailhookstudio.com

It would be sorta hard to have a one airplane museum if the plane was never there???!!!

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Don't touch my junk!!

She was here at PDK in Atlanta this weekend along with Don Brooks "Liberty Belle" B-17, C-47. Also had a T-33, & a couple of really nice T-6's. They were her to celebrate Gen Paul Tibbets, & Pat Epps birthdays, & to commerate Operation Bolero. Gen Tibbets moves kinda slow & does not hear well, but he is still sharp for a 90 year old guy. I helped crew the B-17, & loved every minute of it! Last time I saw that P-38 was in our hangar in pieces. They really did a nice job restoreing her.
Regards
Robbie Stuart

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Fly Fast Make Noise!

It was my understanding that they only had one pilot flying the aircraft- and he's a busy guy! Maybe they've added another pilot or plan to?

I think Steve Hinton is the only one flying her so far.

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Fly Fast Make Noise!

i'd have to say i agree with every post on this thread thus far....... but the insurance on her in case of catastrophic loss has to be a sizeable factor!!! she is 1 of a kind & irreplaceable. they must pay out the ying yang for her both flying nation wide & sitting at home in kentucky.

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

From what I understand, hull insurance on historic types is something like 10% hull value per year! That's pretty obscene when you think about it. It wouldn't surprise me if they only insured her per flight, or for liability only. I know that several owners do it that way.

Richard

Well, you could always run up to Greenland and grab another one...piece of cake!

Heh, let me grab my passport, a lighter and an ice pick

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Scott Rose
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damned insurance companies are money sucking vipers. insuring per flight sounds about as ridiculous & greedy & unreasonable as it gets, & i'm not surprised. they always got the collector by the schnards!! tom

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

To be fair its not just the insurance companies fault. The valuation of the aircraft we love so much is one of the root causes. If the company charged more reasonable rates then they would be out of business within one or two claims. And people with an absurd willingness to sue for anything the liability is atrocious.

While I agree that insurance is a huge problem and will likely ground some aircraft types way before the FAA does, it is not purely in the fault of the insurance companies.

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Scott Rose
Editor-In-Chief/Webmaster
Warbirds Resource Group - Warbird Information Exchange - Warbird Registry

Be civil, be polite, be nice.... or be elsewhere.
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This site is brought to you with the support of members like you. If you find this site to be of value to you,
consider supporting this forum and the Warbirds Resource Group with a VOLUNTARY subscription
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Weeellll,

I suppose you could fly it with $250k coverage, and just let a really good pilot fly it every time. However, the question is would the operators be willing to do it?

Then don't get insurance (i.e. self insure). There is no federal law requiring insurance. You should only insure what you can't afford to lose.

Perhaps Steve Hinton is the only pilot because he is the lowest cost warbird pilot to insure. I haven't read that the owner is complaining about the cost of insurance, only some unfounded suppositions.

Is 10% a year unreasonable? Insurance companies have to cover their losses plus a profit.

In the past 30 years there have been 8 P-38 crashes (on the books, there may have been others unreported) resulting in 4 fatalities in the US, and at least 1 fatal crash in the UK:

Probable Cause
Factual ,
Probable Cause
6/25/2001
12/4/2001
Greenwood, MS
Lockheed P-38L-5LD
N25Y
Nonfatal
Part 91: General Aviation

Probable Cause
Factual ,
Probable Cause
6/6/1997
10/30/1998
TILLAMOOK, OR
Lockheed P-38L
N7973
Fatal(1)
Part 91: General Aviation

Probable Cause
Factual ,
Probable Cause
5/4/1997
12/15/1997
GALVESTON, TX
Lockheed P-38L
N9005R
Nonfatal
Part 91: General Aviation

Probable Cause
Factual ,
Probable Cause
5/28/1994
1/12/1995
BRECKENRIDGE, TX
LOCKHEED P-38
N38LL
Nonfatal
Part 91: General Aviation

Probable Cause

4/9/1981

SALT LAKE CITY, UT
LOCKHEED P-38
N6961
Fatal(1)
Part 91 General Aviation

Probable Cause

10/19/1974

LAFAYETTE, LA
LOCKHEED P-38L
N38LL
Fatal(1)
Part 91 General Aviation

Probable Cause

5/23/1971

PARIS, TX
LOCKHEED P-38
N5596V
Nonfatal
Part 91 General Aviation

Probable Cause

8/4/1965

LOS OLIVOS, CA
LOCKHEED P-38
N504MH
Fatal(1)
Part 91 General Aviation

That is about one every 3 years. As a P-38 insurer you would have to collect about $2 Million every 3 years plus a profit- assuming that you didn't have a rash of claims in one year that would put you at risk of losing money.

How many P-38s are flying in the US? 4 or 5? So if you take $666k a year in claims average divided over 5 aircraft you would need to collect $133k each P-38 per year to break even. This assumes each aircraft is totally destroyed in an accident, doesn't include profit, doesn't include any money as a buffer against a rash of losses, and totally ignores any liability insurance (!).

I'm not an insurer (although I have played one on TV), but the logic above would seem to indicate that 8-12% is probably reasonable for a P-38. 10% for a Cessna 150 would be in the $2k range annually, right? Does that sound unreasonable? What are Warbug and Spam Can owners paying these days?

again, all posts prior to this reply have merit, however scott's comments really put the insurance issue in perspective. interesting angle about hinton's services being an insurance bargain!! however, a man with his warbird pilot skills & credentials can't be cheap for hire!! he sure has the perks too!! best, tom

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

A friend of mine who purchased a P-51D about 5 years ago paid $10,000 per year with a $100,000 deductable. This price was on the condition of a Crazy Hourse LOA and 500 hours of taildragger time. But since the value of the airplane has increased so has the premium. This should give you an idea.

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Don't touch my junk!!