Glacier Girl

[tom d. friedman]

wow jack!! talk about sticker shock. the old addage "the difference of men & boys depends on the price of their toys" is 100% accurate!! what does a guy like kermit weeks & tallichett do?? print the $$$$ in their basement daily?? yikes!!

[Jack Cook]

Check this thread for 1 possible answer.
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2994

[bdk]

I suppose you could fly it with $250k coverage, and just let a really good pilot fly it every time. However, the question is would the operators be willing to do it?

Does insurance work that way? Normally you pay for hull coverage and the insurance company decides if the aircraft is totaled or rebuilt. If the insurance company totals the aircraft, you get $250k and they get the plane!

On another note, I suspect Lefty Gardner's P-38 was self-insured for hull damage. Those are the risks you take, and the crash landing was unavoidable (from a pilot's perspective).

[O.P.]

Check this thread for 1 possible answer.
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2994

Those are some good points. I always thought that the majority of the museum "Loans" were to get rid of the tax burden on an extremely expensive aircraft, not necessarily to restore them, although I know that happens also.

In California, they'll dink you with a sales tax that pretty much equals 10 percent of the airplanes cost. They have a way of charging you no matter if the plane was purchased here or not. In the counties around where I live they charge 1 percent a year in taxes.

P-51= 1.5 mil
State sales tax= 150k
County tax= 15k per year

Chunk in insurance, gas, maintenance, training......whew...I've heard numbers far exceeding 1000 dollars an hour to operate these planes.

I'm not sure about this, someone correct me if I'm wrong please, but, If you have 5 30+ year old planes, you can call yourself a museum and get a tax break. If you have 1 plane, you can show it 12 times a year, of which 6 cannot be at your home airfield. This will exempt you from the county tax. I agree with this use of the tax code because it gets the planes out and about and we can see more of them, and the hangars are open on the weekend for "Museum" planes.

As far as restoreing a plane.....I'm not sure what to think about that. I've been asked to donate to a plane restoration non-profit before. I asked a few questions like,

Q: Who owns the plane? The non-profit?
A: Daddy owns it. It's on long term loan.

Q: Wheres the plane at?
A: In daddys hangar.

Q: Who will operate the plane?
A: Daddy.

Q: Can I go see the plane?
A: No.

Q: Can I help work on it?
A: No.

Q: Why should I give this project money then?
A: Because its a tax deduction for you, and you'll be helping get a rare warbird back into the sky.

The conversation ended there with me being thought of as the biggest ahole of the day.

I figured it out, that is an abuse of both the tax system and more importantly, peoples trust.

I like the tax deduction, but, If I'm going to shell out for that, It'll go to outfits like Collings or a museum that allows donors to participate in some way other than cash.

[Mudge]

Talking to the "aircraft coordinator" for the Stars and Stripes wing of the CONFEDERATE Air Force in '03, I was told that they wanted $15,000 to bring "Glacier Girl" to Frederick, MD for a static display. CAF said, "No thanks." And I do believe Steve Hinton is the only guy they'll allow to fly her. He's also an American Airlines airplane driver and has to comply with that schedule first.

Mudge the P-38 fan

[bdk]

He's also an American Airlines airplane driver and has to comply with that schedule first.

Really? Are you sure you aren't thinking of Ray Dieckman?

[Mudge]

Yes, I could be wrong but I don't think so.
I was wrong once. I believe it was in 1953 but I might be mistaken

Mudge the trustworthy

[Chad Veich]

Somebody better let Hinton know that he's an American Airlines pilot now!

[HarvardIV]

O.P.........

I'm not sure about this, someone correct me if I'm wrong please, but, If you have 5 30+ year old planes, you can call yourself a museum and get a tax break. If you have 1 plane, you can show it 12 times a year, of which 6 cannot be at your home airfield. This will exempt you from the county tax. I agree with this use of the tax code because it gets the planes out and about and we can see more of them, and the hangars are open on the weekend for "Museum" planes.

I must say again, only in Claeforniaaa.

If they don't tax your house, they tax your plane. Come to sunny Arizona were the taxes are cheap, and the ladies don't know they're pretty!!

[T J Johansen]

Check this thread for 1 possible answer.
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2994

Those are some good points. I always thought that the majority of the museum "Loans" were to get rid of the tax burden on an extremely expensive aircraft, not necessarily to restore them, although I know that happens also.

In California, they'll dink you with a sales tax that pretty much equals 10 percent of the airplanes cost. They have a way of charging you no matter if the plane was purchased here or not. In the counties around where I live they charge 1 percent a year in taxes.

P-51= 1.5 mil
State sales tax= 150k
County tax= 15k per year

Chunk in insurance, gas, maintenance, training......whew...I've heard numbers far exceeding 1000 dollars an hour to operate these planes.

I'm not sure about this, someone correct me if I'm wrong please, but, If you have 5 30+ year old planes, you can call yourself a museum and get a tax break. If you have 1 plane, you can show it 12 times a year, of which 6 cannot be at your home airfield. This will exempt you from the county tax. I agree with this use of the tax code because it gets the planes out and about and we can see more of them, and the hangars are open on the weekend for "Museum" planes.

As far as restoreing a plane.....I'm not sure what to think about that. I've been asked to donate to a plane restoration non-profit before. I asked a few questions like,

Q: Who owns the plane? The non-profit?
A: Daddy owns it. It's on long term loan.

Q: Wheres the plane at?
A: In daddys hangar.

Q: Who will operate the plane?
A: Daddy.

Q: Can I go see the plane?
A: No.

Q: Can I help work on it?
A: No.

Q: Why should I give this project money then?
A: Because its a tax deduction for you, and you'll be helping get a rare warbird back into the sky.

The conversation ended there with me being thought of as the biggest ahole of the day.

I figured it out, that is an abuse of both the tax system and more importantly, peoples trust.

I like the tax deduction, but, If I'm going to shell out for that, It'll go to outfits like Collings or a museum that allows donors to participate in some way other than cash.

It that possibly the reason you see some US based Warbirds fly the flag of convenience of a Delaware company....?

T J

[Mudge]

Ok...Maybe I'm wrong about where Steve Hinton works but I don't really need the sarcasm, Mr. Veich.

Mudge the evidently misinformed

[HarvardIV]

Hi Mudge:

I think Mr. Hinton "lurks" on this board, so I don't think Mr. Veich is being sarcastic. A few of these guys are probably his wingman sometimes..

[Chad Veich]

No sarcasm or offense intended, only humor. My appologies if any toes were stepped on.

[bdk]

Yes, I could be wrong but I don't think so.
I was wrong once. I believe it was in 1953 but I might be mistaken

Mudge the trustworthy

That's twice now Mr. Mudge! Once more and you'll be demoted from Lance Corporal.

Hmmmm... I wonder what's below a Lance Corporal? Maybe a Bowie Knife Corporal?

[corsairboss]

This one will have to stop right here.!! Steve is NOT a Pilot with American Airlines. there have been discussions of another qualified pilot or two for Glacier Girl but that has not happened just yet. Glacier Girl will attend some show in 2005, but there is the scheduling thing that has to happen first. Steve fly's The Air Museum P-38 first for Heritage Flights, then they try to fly GG at other times.