Aviation Archeology

[gary1954]

Sounds like he needs to walk into a propellor..

That is good. When I read the first post, I wondered who brainwashed that kid.

[RyanShort1]

Hey Guys:

I have a friend who will possibly start working for the U.S. government as an aviation archeologist, and his job will be to prevent anyone from removing any wrecks either Air Force or others. What do you think of that? He says he will start after he get his masters degree in Aviation Archeology. He said he may just go to work for the NHC. He said he wants to prevent greedy collectors from removing wrecks, and only allowing government 0k'd museums to have the planes. he says he views the wrecks as relics of history which must not be touched.

Maybe he shouldn't touch them either! Sounds like he's a bit of an elitist who thinks only the government should interpret history. What about of the people, by the people, for the people?
Also, maybe you should invite him to come to some warbird operators HQs and see the hidden pricetag of maintaining these aircraft so that they can be displayed for the public (yes, some of us with flying museums really do it for the history, not just because they're cool). I can tell you for certain that we don't make a lot of money on our little plane restorations. When we went to Lackland with the L-5 we maybe made $200 or so in the sales (of history books and related items intended to promote history - another investment of ours) and spent over $1000 because of a major repair we had to do beforehand! Greedy capitalists indeed!
How much has FIFI made vs. the costs of repairing her? What about Texas Raiders? Oh, and where does the federal government get the money to restore their aircraft? Taxpayers? Does that make them greedy hoarders (I don't believe that BTW)?

Ryan

[gary1954]

Thanks for the input everyone.

Anyway, I talked more with this fellow, and asked him what the problem is with the collectors, and surprisingly he has the mindset that only museums and government agencies can be trusted. Basicly, collectors and operators are EVIIILLL CAPITALISTS out to shortchange the history of the precious rusted relics from the people who own them.

Like the Navy and Air Force, are going to pull a bunch of their Warbirds outta their hangars and start having the airshows we all see and love, and let kids climb all over them. Questions that the children ask the crew will be referred to the Office of Public Affairs, where they will receive an answer to their question(s) after their 21st birthday when their interests have turned to trouble rather than Aviation History

[gary1954]

Just what we need another nut case out there screwing up the preservation efforts of the working class Lets all hope his intrest changes and he focuses on the preservation of the endangered yellow spotted fruit cake

Obviously his friend has never been laid....$- hit, I'll front up 20 bucks so he can see the other side of life. All that stuff's got his vision blurred.

[Robbie Stuart]

Sounds like he needs to walk into a propellor..

Sounds like he already DID.

[k5083]

First of all, aviation archaeology is a crock. Yes, I know that you can get graduate degrees in it and that it is an occupational title. Notwithstanding that, the type of "archaeology" they practice is closer to that of noted archaeologists Indiana Jones and Lara Croft than of academic archaeology.

There is no need for aviation archaeology. Archaeology is a great tool for learning about civilizations that left little or no written record, or very occasionally for learning about aspects of literate societies to which too little attention was paid in the written record. The industrial powers of the 20th century have left extensive written records and aviation has been very well documented. We therefore can practice "history" on them rather than archaeology. Only the silliest trivia is left to be learned by chasing wrecks and examining artifacts. What your friend is becoming, is a glorified collector of museum displays (or more often, useless bits of scrap).

It's when people get pretentious about their occupations and expertise that they begin bossing others around.

That said, the pretention is not all on his side. I find the idea that private-sector wreck chasers and airplane recoverers/restorers and the warbird movement are doing anything good for history just absurd. The truth is that airplane wrecks are nothing but junk and some people enjoy turning the junk into lovely toys, whether static or flying, whether in museums or individuals' hands. As soon as you start getting self-important about history OR archaeology, this kind of pointless dispute starts.

August

[Django]

How many aircraft in museums today were recovered by private parties??? How old is this kid? 21? 22? I think he needs to do an internship with Lex.

[mustangdriver]

Yeah this sounds too crazy. I support making sure that some one is there that can make sure the the recovery is done correct and proper. If there are any items that belonged to the pilot or crew, or crew remains, this needs to be done properly. I don't think that the NMNA or NMUSAF need to be at each recovery, but I think that someone does need to ensure what is being recovered, how, and the intentions.

[A2C]

Gentlemen:

I've know this guy for several years, and he was a seemingly nice guy, but as the year have gone by I've seen him sort of slip more and more into an indoctrinated state. He told me he at one point that he supported removing parts from wreck sites for somebody's project plane.

But now he says he associates more and more with the likes of the NHC, and he actually agrees with them as he get's more immersed in their ideas. Dangerous stuff.

Here's an example; I explained to him that it's much easier to duplicate parts when having a pattern rib or something from an intact wreck, and he said this;

Why should history and the historic memories therof sacrifice itself to save the rebuilder some time and money? Why is the rebuilder so cheap to be so willing to destroy history, just to save themselves some money, etc.? The underlying theme was those evil rebuilders are making money off of wrecks for their own gain, and they aren't helping the people.

I basicly said in response "what people"? "Who cares". The conclusion was pretty much just him, a couple of his friends, and the NHC.

[brucev]

i'm sorry but my BS meter is pegged out. your "friend" is trying to get you worked up. what the fell is a aviation archeology degree and where can i get one?

[A2C]

This guy literally does not want any wrecks getting into private hands. I kept thinking, is this a bureaucrat in the making? It's troubling, but true.

Last edited by A2C on Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:32 am, edited 3 times in total.

[Nathan]

First of all, aviation archaeology is a crock. Yes, I know that you can get graduate degrees in it and that it is an occupational title. Notwithstanding that, the type of "archaeology" they practice is closer to that of noted archaeologists Indiana Jones and Lara Croft than of academic archaeology.

Wow! The only down fall I see with aviation archaeology is that you really won't make any money in it. Unless you work with current plane crashes. I had planned to get into avaition archaeology..I still might. Justin Tylan said I could come with him someday.

[Robbie Roberts]

That whack job is a brass plated pin-head! I agree with both the propeller and get him laid theories... Along with get him away from the conformity factory to which his brain has been donated! Next thing, he'll be spouting communist philosophies about how the wrecks are the proletariat's reward, not for the bourgesois collector to manipulate! It seems to me that a college education is no longer a broad stroke of life, but rather a focused indoctrination in liberalistic buraeucratic groupthink.

I've been there- I resisted, and still got a few useless degrees- but I know there is an agenda there... And now they're polluting aviation with these morons.

Do us all a favor- get the guy addicted to crack. Once the rest of his brain rots, maybe he'll normal out. At least he won't be very useful to those dopes.

Robbie

[Matt Gunsch]

don't get the guy laid, he might reproduce, castration on the other hand would solve the problem very nicely

[PinecastleAAF]

I was of the opinion that we were precluded from making overt political statements on this forum, if that is the case, A2C please remove or alter your tag line because I find it to be hyper political -and potentially inciteful, the sort of thing that belongs on aerovintage or another board.
Thank you in advance for being so understanding-

Bingo. Total BS.

Why don't you tell him about wix and let HIM post what he thinks instead of hearsay garbage.