Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:56 pm
I think they should do a 1 for 1 swap of the B-17 for Swamp Ghost. PNG would be happy as they would have a more or less "restored" aircraft, and the Air Force would get an extremely rare B-17 in return.
Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:37 pm
APG85 (Scott)
I agree with you that if you build a building that you're going to host visitors with, you will have to have some of the basics. I'm just pointing out that basic hangar construction doesn't cost $100/sq foot. At that highly inflated price, you'd still have a 300,000 sqft building, which is a monster. If you build a smaller building, with more of the bells and whistles, it's still not going to cost $30 million. I think that $30 million probably could account for land acquisition, moving the aircraft, restoring the aircraft, building a really, really nice building, and having some opening/first year capital. But even then it's an incredibly nice project, more than most every aviation museum starts with. I'll bet Castle, Hill, and some of the other former AFB museums would LOVE to have $30 million to play with. I just think that, absent owernship of the aircraft and a sugar daddy, that's an unreaslistic number.
On a separate but connected note... when does anyone think that the NMUSAF might consider an approach similar to that used in Britain with the Spitfires? What would it take for the NMUSAF to consider replacing all of the pre-1950 aircraft with fiberglass replicas? Could you set up an arrangement where private parties could purchase the aircraft for the cost of replacing them with the replicas? Maybe even do it in an auction format, such that the NMUSAF could gain much needed funds for the restoration of some of the gems in its collection, or for the acquisition of missing pieces? Just a thought...
kevin
I agree with you that if you build a building that you're going to host visitors with, you will have to have some of the basics. I'm just pointing out that basic hangar construction doesn't cost $100/sq foot. At that highly inflated price, you'd still have a 300,000 sqft building, which is a monster. If you build a smaller building, with more of the bells and whistles, it's still not going to cost $30 million. I think that $30 million probably could account for land acquisition, moving the aircraft, restoring the aircraft, building a really, really nice building, and having some opening/first year capital. But even then it's an incredibly nice project, more than most every aviation museum starts with. I'll bet Castle, Hill, and some of the other former AFB museums would LOVE to have $30 million to play with. I just think that, absent owernship of the aircraft and a sugar daddy, that's an unreaslistic number.
On a separate but connected note... when does anyone think that the NMUSAF might consider an approach similar to that used in Britain with the Spitfires? What would it take for the NMUSAF to consider replacing all of the pre-1950 aircraft with fiberglass replicas? Could you set up an arrangement where private parties could purchase the aircraft for the cost of replacing them with the replicas? Maybe even do it in an auction format, such that the NMUSAF could gain much needed funds for the restoration of some of the gems in its collection, or for the acquisition of missing pieces? Just a thought...
kevin
Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:44 pm
I, for one, don't like the idea of someone coming in and pulling their aircraft from a display that has been together for many years. It's sad and hard on those individuals who sweated to create something.
The problem is these aircraft need to be taken care of and if this current round of discussions or threats gets things moving down there, then that is great. If not, then perhaps the aircraft would be better served by placing them elsewhere where they can get the care they deserve with someone who has the abilities and funds.
The New England Air Museum has returned many aircraft that were on loan from the Air Force and Navy because they couldn't house them properly. As hard as it is for those of us who love them, it's best for the aircraft. The ones NEAM has let go have been restored and most are currently on display. A far cry from sitting outside in another New England winter!
I hope they get their act together to keep the collection intact, but if not, there are many deserving locations that will benefit in the end.
Jerry
The problem is these aircraft need to be taken care of and if this current round of discussions or threats gets things moving down there, then that is great. If not, then perhaps the aircraft would be better served by placing them elsewhere where they can get the care they deserve with someone who has the abilities and funds.
The New England Air Museum has returned many aircraft that were on loan from the Air Force and Navy because they couldn't house them properly. As hard as it is for those of us who love them, it's best for the aircraft. The ones NEAM has let go have been restored and most are currently on display. A far cry from sitting outside in another New England winter!
I hope they get their act together to keep the collection intact, but if not, there are many deserving locations that will benefit in the end.
Jerry
Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:50 pm
warbird1 wrote:I think they should do a 1 for 1 swap of the B-17 for Swamp Ghost. PNG would be happy as they would have a more or less "restored" aircraft, and the Air Force would get an extremely rare B-17 in return.
Huh?
Ryan
Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:52 am
It wouldn't surprise me if the B-24 ended up going to the NASM eventually. They have been after one for years and have a good "trade" relationship with the NMUSAF...
Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:49 pm
There was some good discussion in this thread as well:
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... sc&start=0
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... sc&start=0
vulcan xm606
Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:24 am
Just how bad is XM606? Looks like she has had a repaint at somepoint?
Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:54 am
I heard that the Vulcan may get moved to Wright Patt. But at this point I would chalk it up to hangar talk.
Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:15 am
peter wrote:Just how bad is XM606? Looks like she has had a repaint at somepoint?
I'm not an expert on what the ravages of time and elements on aircraft, but it doesn't look too bad to me. I took many pictures of that plane the times I was there and compared them to the pictures I took of the one in Nebraska, XM573.
It is sitting on its tires and the front ones are flat, but so was the NE Vulcan. Bird droppings in the wheel wells, but aside from that the wheel wells looked in about the same shape.
Some corrosion on the bare metal around the exhaust and one of the cockpit windows may be broken, or maybe pushed in (couldn't really tell). All in all, one of the better displays there.
Since the plane was given specifically to Barksdale, wouldn't moving it to Wright-Patterson be a no-no. Maybe the Barksdale museum could give it to the CAF and the CAF could trade it for, I dunno', maybe an F-82.
Since this thread, I have been wondering what happened to the UC-64.
Last edited by cozmo on Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:23 am
Gotta wonder how much "the powers that be" monitor this website, and if a previous thread a few months ago was the little birdie telling them to go pay a visit down south-or reason for another museum to reiterate their interest.
Funny there are very few black helicopters at the various air museums....
Funny there are very few black helicopters at the various air museums....
Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:26 am
cozmo wrote:peter wrote:Just how bad is XM606? Looks like she has had a repaint at somepoint?
I'm not an expert on what the ravages of time and elements on aircraft, but it doesn't look too bad to me. I took many pictures of that plane the times I was there and compared them to the pictures I took of the one in Nebraska, XM573.
It is sitting on its tires and the front ones are flat, but so was the NE Vulcan. Bird droppings in the wheel wells, but aside from that the wheel wells looked in about the same shape.
Some corrosion on the bare metal around the exhaust and one of the cockpit windows may be broken, or maybe pushed in (couldn't really tell). All in all, one of the better displays there.
Since the plane was given specifically to Barksdale, wouldn't the Wouldn't moving it to Wright-Patterson be a no-no. Maybe the Barksdale museum could give it to the CAF and the CAF could trade it for, I dunno', maybe an F-82.
Since this thread, I have been wondering what happened to the UC-64.
The aircraft are owned by the NMUSAF, and are displayed at barksdale.
Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:26 pm
So, a few weeks have passed with no speculation as to the Barksdale airplanes or whether or not SSSB will remain at NMUSAF. Since we already know that one bullet took out Kennedy and we didn't really go to the moon, surely there's more room for speculation on these corroded old planes.
Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:06 am
I understand the NMUSAF is training a secret squad of Ninja commandos who will sneak into warbird hangars and night and torch the spars.
Meanwhile, the CAF is training a secret unit to sneak into the NMUSAF at night and replace all the aircraft with fiberglas replicas, and fly the originals to a secret base in Texas, which will then declare it's independence from the U.S.
Time for my meds...
SN
Meanwhile, the CAF is training a secret unit to sneak into the NMUSAF at night and replace all the aircraft with fiberglas replicas, and fly the originals to a secret base in Texas, which will then declare it's independence from the U.S.
Time for my meds...
SN
Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:26 am
All coming to the underground bunker at Boerne Stage. Shhh....don't tell anyone.