Tom Cruise and his P-51

[Saville]

Several of the pilots mentioned, in the compilation Bill speaks of, were not owners. One, as I recall, didn't even have his PPL but had solo'd.

[Dudley Henriques]

The phrase "people with more money than skill" doesn't denote a particular income level...merely people with the means to own an airplane that exceeds their capabilities as a pilot. "Capabilities" includes judgment and discipline just as much as it does stick-and-rudder skills.

If I took a cross section of all the prop fighter owner/operators I know now and have known through my tenure in aviation I would tell you that in my opinion, many of these owner/operators' habit patterns and personality traits equate to BOTH that required to achieve financial success in business or profession AND that required to operate a high performance airplane safely.
In other words, much of what gets a pilot to the financial level needed to operate a warbird can be directly equated to much of what's required to fly that warbird safely.
This having been said, is NOT by any means a mathematical constant.
If I'm not mistaken Randy, you fly fighters? I'm sure you're aware of the fine line between aggressiveness and over confidence that anyone in the business has to walk to operate safely on a consistent basis.
The military as you know spends much time and capital in moulding the correct attitudes and habit patterns starting in UPT and continuing all the way through lead in and beyond.
Civilian pilots coming into the warbird arena on the other hand, in many cases haven't had the advantage of all this "attitude adjustment" The result can be a real mixed bag of talents, skill, attitudes, and personalities brought to the table for a warbird transition.
This puts a HUGE responsibility on those in the business who deal with training and checkout in these airplanes.
I can honestly say that in almost every case I've dealt with involving a civilian pilot wanting transition into a warbird I've had to spend a LOT of time walking that pilot through an attitude adjustment period.
All of these pilots came to the table with money. Most who came in from a path involving hard work and smart decisions transitioned easily into the warbird experience. A few with inherited wealth who crossed my path brought to the table attitudes that in my opinion at the time, needed some hefty work before they could operate a prop fighter safely.
So it's a double edged sword on the civilian side. Some are ok, some need work. Some need a whole LOT of work, but it's not the money so much as the personality that arrives with the money that matters.

I figured out that wealthy parents have 2 things in common, they're wickedly smart enough to have become rich, and they give birth to smart kids.

..... debatable ...

[Django]

I figured out that wealthy parents have 2 things in common, they're wickedly smart enough to have become rich, and they give birth to smart kids.

..... debatable ...

Paris says that P-51s are hot.

[Dudley Henriques]

I figured out that wealthy parents have 2 things in common, they're wickedly smart enough to have become rich, and they give birth to smart kids.

..... debatable ...

Paris says that P-51s are hot.

Even hotter is a P51 with a big stuffed Teddy Bear in the right wing gun bay!! You'll have to trust me on this one!!!!! )
Dudley Henriques

[drgondog]

In the UK the P-51 'Jumpin Jacques' owned by Peter Teichman of the Hangar 11 Collection is said to definitely be an original Tuskeegee mustang. When they were overhauling it red paint was found on the tail.

Don't think so. 44-72035 was assigned to the 8th AF's 364th FG coded 5E+B late war assignment

The 8th had 12 different Mustang squadrons with red rudders post Oct-44. Curiously the 364th was one of the two (353FG the other) that did not.

It could have received a red rudder if it was one of the newer Mustangs transferred to the 357th or 355th when they went to Germany in July 45.

[drgondog]

We all wish we were flying a p-51. Lets's not be overly critical of pilots who are fortunate enough to fly our dream machine.

The problem with applying this philosophy toward the Mustang is that it -- like some other aircraft (Barons and Bonanzas are the ones that come to mind offhand) -- has a long track record of people with more money than skill owning/flying them. The result has been these pilots/owners wrecking them and sometimes killing themselves (and passengers) in the process.

For these aircraft there is rarely a formalized training process with training standards at any level other than the FAA Private PTS.

Your comments are dead on. When my father had a Mustang in the 1959-1962 timeframe he had it converted at Cavalier. I learned to fly this airplane in a very gradual process unsder the instruction of a 9,000 hour fighter pilot and ace who flew it in WWII and post war Japan. I had at least 40 hours of dual in the airplane after 20 dual then 20 more solo hours in a T-6 and a lot more time in 150/172.

It is a delight to fly and easy to get over confident in.

The flip side is that he had exactly three flights for a total of 3.5 hours at Goxhill before assignment to 355th FG and scoring his first kill on his first day of combat... he was not an 'average' pilot.

[Jack Cook]

It could have received a red rudder if it was one of the newer Mustangs transferred to the 357th or 355th when they went to Germany in July 45.

Or someone could have throw some red paint on it in the last 60 years
I'll stck with Peter Randall of Little friends

[drgondog]

Peter has some errors - I know because I have been the source of some but in all he is the best single place to search for serial numbers.

The problem is that all of us are supplying different research data to Peter that frequently he has no context for, or proof points (like no Macr or photo of the actual ship - but maybe a partial serial number around a cockpit)

I have also tried to help WIX correct some to no avail - particularly on - 44-13571 which is shown as a current ship survivor and I know it went into North Sea on February 10, 1945

[JDK]

I figured out that wealthy parents have 2 things in common, they're wickedly smart enough to have become rich, and they give birth to smart kids.

..... debatable ...

To say the least. It's as easy to find second generation kids that have thrown it all away as to find those who've built on their parents achievements.

As F Scott Fitzgerald was told when starstruck over some wealthy people, "Yes, Scott, they are different to us. They have more money."

But that's got nothing to do with warbirds. Again the issue with money is that you need a) to have enough and b) not stint on spending enough wisely on maintenance and training, as highlighted earlier.

Sadly some people get to the top by being misers, in part, and that makes for poor maintenance and training. Others get to the top and lose their good advisors, and become deluded in their abilities, being surrounded by yes men.

I'm interested in Dudley's points re- attitude; one thing you'd expect is if you worked d@mn hard to get something (like a warbird) you'd take care not to screw up. Yet that doesn't automatically equate - any more than all rich people got their by hard work and the right attitude.

But I guess this thread, having started with a short actor and travelled to a useful debate, is about to go off to yet another debate about Mustang originality, so that's the interesting bit gone, then.

Regards,

I figured out that wealthy parents have 2 things in common, they're wickedly smart enough to have become rich, and they give birth to smart kids.

..... debatable ...

My new WIX better judgement tells me to refrain from using more convincing language. One needs only to visit most wealthy areas in Southern California to fully discredit your rather over-rated theory ...

[mustangdriver]

I think this is a shame. Just think if you are Tom reading this. Hear me out. Here is a guy that has a job that pays well. He enjoys aviation, and decides he wants to own a P-51. So there is another P-51 flying(a very sharp looking example at that), and people here are coming off having doubts because of who he is? SO what. He is saving another warbird. As everyone is fast to point out, if it is owned by a private owner, they can do what they want. Well, he has fun with it. Guess what? If I win the lotto tomorrow, one of the first things I would do is but a warbird. SO are you gus going to be upset because I'm wealthy and own a P-51. I don't know a single owner of a P-51 that isn't wealthy. The thing costs around a million dollars!! Leave this poor guy alone. What has Tom done to make you doubt his flying abilities? Nothing. SO until then give the guy a break, and be happy one more airplane is around.

As said in John Wayne's Flying Tigers, "Everyone here starts out even, that goes for everyone."

[JDK]

I don't recall anyone doubting Tom' Cruse's abilities - in fact several people have troubled to state they have info implying he's a good pair of hands.

The discussion IMHO is more general about abilities, background and issues, rather than specific personalities - a worthwhile thread for that, rather than a daytime TV moment about a 'star'.

I think this is a shame. Just think if you are Tom reading this. Hear me out. Here is a guy that has a job that pays well. He enjoys aviation, and decides he wants to own a P-51. So there is another P-51 flying(a very sharp looking example at that), and people here are coming off having doubts because of who he is? SO what. He is saving another warbird. As everyone is fast to point out, if it is owned by a private owner, they can do what they want. Well, he has fun with it. Guess what? If I win the lotto tomorrow, one of the first things I would do is but a warbird. SO are you gus going to be upset because I'm wealthy and own a P-51. I don't know a single owner of a P-51 that isn't wealthy. The thing costs around a million dollars!! Leave this poor guy alone. What has Tom done to make you doubt his flying abilities? Nothing. SO until then give the guy a break, and be happy one more airplane is around.

As said in John Wayne's Flying Tigers, "Everyone here starts out even, that goes for everyone."

[ZRX61]

Leaving aside TC for a moment because he doesn't seem to have any problem spending what needs to be spent to maintain his P51..

Some of the warbird owners who make merely "rich" people look like paupers, seem to be the ones who have the most difficulty spending what it necessary to maintain their rides.... or if they do spend it, piss & moan about the expense..