Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:03 pm
We regularly hand-prop one of our Wacos as we have no starter installed. I agree with all of you that posted that the first step is someone competent in the cockpit. The second is to always treat the prop as if it was hot and will fire at any point. ALWAYS lay your hand flat on the prop, not with your finger tips curled around it. ALWAYS step AWAY from the prop, not into it. KNOW your limitations. Your heigth compared to the height of the prop makes a big difference. Propping a Cessna 150 is far more dangerous then propping a Cub due to that exact example. You generally are standing over it. Have someone who is qualified show you the proper technique. I have been doing this without mishap for nearly 30 years and have taught many the rules of the game. Let's be safe out there and stop someone who you see has no experience before they are injured. It only takes a split second to ruin your life!
Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:13 pm
Lots of good comments here but I have to say I sometimes miss hand starting the Warner Scarab on my Triplane when either the batter was low or after the whole starter/battery was removed - another story. Get her wet, throttle at idle, chocks in (other precautions as needed on the kind of start but sometimes that was it) and she usually started on the first or second swing and then just lopped along at about 450 rpm. Sweet sound.
Randy
Randy
Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:28 pm
I've always installed the prop on an "Armstrong Starter" engine in such a manner that I could walk past the engine and pull the prop over TDC. That way I was away from the front of the engine when it caught.
The 5 cyl Kinner always had a sweet spot to do that.
Sully
The 5 cyl Kinner always had a sweet spot to do that.
Sully
Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:31 pm
All the tips have already been said. But I have prop'd alone before and still the Number 1 rule, treat the prop as mags always hot!! When I worked for a banner tow outfit, we prop'd from behind at the doorway. Our mag switches were located right there on the right side of the panel. I would put my left foot infront of the tire, it took some getting used to but never had a issue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM_eH6Zw ... re=related
This vid is not quite right but is one of the airplanes I worked on, he looks a little close to me but if your back by the tire, its not a issue.
Now this is ME!!! We have never had a electrical system in our N. We have been hand proping her since her 1st flight after restoration in 1976.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63C95rsaHZQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM_eH6Zw ... re=related
This vid is not quite right but is one of the airplanes I worked on, he looks a little close to me but if your back by the tire, its not a issue.
Now this is ME!!! We have never had a electrical system in our N. We have been hand proping her since her 1st flight after restoration in 1976.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63C95rsaHZQ
Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:38 pm
It's important to understand that a mag cannot be turned off. It can only be grounded-out.
Thus if there's a fault with the grounding wire, or with the switch itself, you have a live mag, regardless of the switch position.
When handpropping is required, and you have no crew memnber to help, but there are people around, you can use them, BUT keep them away from the cockpit or the prop. Instead, tie the tail to something solid, start the engine, get inside, and THEN ask the bystander to untie the rope and pass it to you, staying behind the wings.
You can't quickly and safely train someone to help you hand-prop, but you can train nearly anyone to untie a rope.
My 2-cent tip... based on 35 years of hand-propping...
Dave
Thus if there's a fault with the grounding wire, or with the switch itself, you have a live mag, regardless of the switch position.
When handpropping is required, and you have no crew memnber to help, but there are people around, you can use them, BUT keep them away from the cockpit or the prop. Instead, tie the tail to something solid, start the engine, get inside, and THEN ask the bystander to untie the rope and pass it to you, staying behind the wings.
You can't quickly and safely train someone to help you hand-prop, but you can train nearly anyone to untie a rope.
My 2-cent tip... based on 35 years of hand-propping...
Dave
Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:42 pm
N3Njeff wrote: When I worked for a banner tow outfit, we prop'd from behind at the doorway. Our mag switches were located right there on the right side of the panel. I would put my left foot infront of the tire, it took some getting used to but never had a issue.
Jeff, that's exactly what I used to do-it's called a seaplane start because if you're on floats its the only way to do it. Works great on a Pa-18 or you need a seaplane door-but check my post. If it kicks back you're almost assured of losing a couple of fingertips. I've only had an engine kick back a few times, but . . .
A big thing about propping is you can't be afraid-if you are tentative you can make it more dangerous. Know where the prop arc is, pull it through without stretching. If you stand too far away your weight will be off balance and shift into the arc-exactly what you don't want. I also always look in the cockpit of a plane I'm about to prop, to ensure the switch is off, then also when I call "brakes set?" I push on the prop hub to make sure they are.
Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:08 pm
I was taught to hand prop similar to the way Jeff starts that N3N in the video. THe key is to have your momentum going away from the propellor arc. That way if you stepped in a gopher hole or tripped you are falling away from the prop.
Small airplanes are supposed to have the rpm set low enough so that they will not propel themself forward at idle power. A friend had a PT-22 that after hand propping would try to lurch forward on the brakes. The RPM was set at 750 rpm at idle. The Kinner can be set at 350 to 400 Rpm to eliminate this problem.
We always carried our own set of chocks in our cubs and Stearmans. THe small aluminum type take up very little room in the baggage compartment.
Another tip is to make sure the propellor is set on the compression stroke, and if the mags are timed correctly it should start on the first try. A lot of the prop strike injuries are because the propellor is not in a good position for hand propping, ie (C-152's and C-172's.)
Last, it seems a lot of prop strike accidents and runaway airplanes accidents are caused by the throttle being set at some position other than idle. Don't trust anyone else to set the throttle before propping. Trying a "hot start" without tying down the tail is asking for big trouble if by yourself. Big tires like on the Stearman and N3N can jump the chocks!
Small airplanes are supposed to have the rpm set low enough so that they will not propel themself forward at idle power. A friend had a PT-22 that after hand propping would try to lurch forward on the brakes. The RPM was set at 750 rpm at idle. The Kinner can be set at 350 to 400 Rpm to eliminate this problem.
We always carried our own set of chocks in our cubs and Stearmans. THe small aluminum type take up very little room in the baggage compartment.
Another tip is to make sure the propellor is set on the compression stroke, and if the mags are timed correctly it should start on the first try. A lot of the prop strike injuries are because the propellor is not in a good position for hand propping, ie (C-152's and C-172's.)
Last, it seems a lot of prop strike accidents and runaway airplanes accidents are caused by the throttle being set at some position other than idle. Don't trust anyone else to set the throttle before propping. Trying a "hot start" without tying down the tail is asking for big trouble if by yourself. Big tires like on the Stearman and N3N can jump the chocks!
Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:27 pm
The only time a solo start is in the back yard. Thats not her normal parking spot but between those BIG chocks. She isnt going anywhere!! Those are old Northeast Airlines for DC-3's!!!
You are right on indexing the prop on installation. We did exactly that at the banner tow outfit. The other bonus was impulse couplings on both mags. They were really easy to start. But when we bolted a O-540 on a cub, it started out with no starter but on that one the firing order would change where the prop was when on compression stroke so if it did not start, we would go to off and pull it around again to where it would fire on the downward throw at the 7 oclock from the front!! We eventually did put a starter on it for safety and I was glad. The only other time I was pushing the issue on hand starting was a Weatherly 450 with the Hartzell 3 blade. I got it started after the battery died for a friend but I swore I would not do that again and havent...............2 blade ham, not a problem tho.
Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:05 am
About six months ago a guy I know got a "new" C-182. He was passing between the nose and his hangar door (tight T hangar) and moved the prop out of the way to facilitate his passing. The thing fired and broke many of the bones in his hand.
Bad mag switch. He got lucky.
Bad mag switch. He got lucky.
Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:11 am
Add to this don't touch the prop until you are finished talking to the person in the cockpit and everything is configured, don't touch the prop until it has stopped moving. Always assume it is going to start the moment you move it the slightest bit.
And to reiterate another post don't stand too far away and lean into the prop.
Pulling the prop usually gets one blade, snapping the prop using wrist action gets multiple blades.
Tom-
And to reiterate another post don't stand too far away and lean into the prop.
Pulling the prop usually gets one blade, snapping the prop using wrist action gets multiple blades.
Tom-
wacoykc wrote:We regularly hand-prop one of our Wacos as we have no starter installed. I agree with all of you that posted that the first step is someone competent in the cockpit. The second is to always treat the prop as if it was hot and will fire at any point. ALWAYS lay your hand flat on the prop, not with your finger tips curled around it. ALWAYS step AWAY from the prop, not into it. KNOW your limitations. Your heigth compared to the height of the prop makes a big difference. Propping a Cessna 150 is far more dangerous then propping a Cub due to that exact example. You generally are standing over it. Have someone who is qualified show you the proper technique. I have been doing this without mishap for nearly 30 years and have taught many the rules of the game. Let's be safe out there and stop someone who you see has no experience before they are injured. It only takes a split second to ruin your life!