Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:51 pm
PbyCat-Guy wrote:Does any one have any recomendations for A&P school, or how to get the A&P? I did 6 months of apprentice work for the A&P, so I'd like to get this finnished. I live in the Philadelphia area.
Ok, you want to work on aircraft.
GREAT!
BUT....
Why waste 20-30K on a school, for a pathetic education, that might get you a $10/hr crap job?
If you spent the same amount of time as an apprentice at a major GA shop, you would get a much better education, easily get your licenses, have a good work record established to use in shopping for a $20/hr job, have earned maybe 30K in wages, and not have 20-30K in tuition expenses.
.
Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:50 pm
Seems appropriate:
http://www.theage.com.au/national/qanta ... -7090.html
Qantas liar jailed for three years
* Harriet Alexander
* December 17, 2008 - 12:40PM
A man who faked his qualifications to perform maintenance checks on Qantas 747s and then falsified the character references he was relying on to get a lighter prison term has been sentenced to three years and five months behind bars.
Timothy McCormack, 26, was sentenced in the District Court today and will spend a minimum of two years in jail.
He told his superiors he had passed his aircraft maintenance exam and forged a licence that allowed him to work on the planes.
Judge Mark Marien said McCormack was employed by Qantas as a junior maintenance engineer, but after his bosses encouraged him to get his full licence he started performing unsupervised maintenance checks despite failing or not sitting the relevant exam.
McCormack pleaded guilty to 54 charges, including performing unauthorised checks, forging a licence and faking Civil Aviation Safety Authority examination results.
After one of his bosses noticed he was carrying out more senior work he became concerned McCormack was not getting paid enough and asked him to produce his qualifications so he could investigate whether he was entitled to back pay.
McCormack produced 10 fake exam documents and a forged licence.
Judge Marien said there was serious potential for catastrophe in an unlicensed engineer carrying out maintenance checks.
"The offender ... set out on a deliberate and conscious course of deceit, masquerading as a licensed aircraft engineer and, without being qualified, carried out technical aircraft work of a licensed engineer including certifying the work of others," Judge Marien said.
Last month, McCormack produced four fake references to persuade the judge to give him a lighter sentence, including one that was not as positive as one that had been legitimately provided by the person whose signature he forged.
He forged testimonials from two people who were working with him at Qantas - each marred by spelling and grammatical errors - describing him as a gifted engineer whose actions had not caused any harm.
One of the fake references said Qantas was worse off for having lost the services of such a conscientious employee.
Judge Marien said the fact McCormack had faked his own references and continued his deception negated his professed remorse.
Qantas previously relied on the honesty of employees in checking their Civil Aviation Safety Authority qualifications because the authority will not pass on information citing privacy concerns.
The airline in now lobbying CASA to pass on information about its employees.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/qanta ... -7090.html
Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:07 pm
PbyCat-Guy wrote:Does any one have any recomendations for A&P school, or how to get the A&P? I did 6 months of apprentice work for the A&P, so I'd like to get this finnished. I live in the Philadelphia area.
If you like fixing things, you will make far more money as an elevator mechanic. There's a local in Philly. http://www.iuec.org/default.asp
You have to jump thru alot of hoops to get in, but once in you're golden.
Everyone has a different story, I worked for UAL for 20 years and took an early retirement. I COULD NOT WAIT TO LEAVE. It was one of the best things I have ever done.
Regards,
Mike
Last edited by mike furline on Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:12 am
mike furline wrote:PbyCat-Guy wrote:
Everyone has a different story, I worked for UAL for 20 years and took an early retirement. I COULD NOT WAIT TO LEAVE. It was one of the best things I have done.
Regards,
Mike
Mike, if you are so inclined, probably a lot of us would like to read why you wanted out of UAL so badly...
Thanks,
Michael
Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:25 am
kenlyco wrote:An A&P is just a first stepping stone into Aircraft maintenance, it only gives you the basics on how to do a variety of jobs you might see out in the field.They are not training you to be a Master in one area,don't let any School fool you they just want that check, If I was not a aircraft refueler for 15 years I would have been clueless when I went to School ,it is just a positive check in the box on your resume,why do you think most IA'S are gray and alky's.become a lineman (not lineboy) and you will learn more than you think before you go to School....
I can say that this is likely a very true statement. I've been working a line job for the last 6-8 months and have learned a lot. I've also learned a lot as a result of my self-study course for the CFI exam which has been going on simultaneously. The guys I work with have been pretty steady, and are experienced mechanics but I've seen the college and tech school wonders a bunch of times so far in my training process, and believe me, some of them make you really care about the preflight. Today I got to learn some about corrosion...
Oh, and I don't think that the A&P world has the corner on these young people. My flight instructors have had similar complaints about students. Most want you to spoon feed them the stuff that they should be reading. That means that even quality instructors have to spend time teaching the basics that they really could be teaching more advanced skills, etc...
Ryan
A&P
Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:29 am
Very interesting post from everyone.It is a major problem but like most schools they just teach to the test.Not good.Kids come looking for jobs with no idea whats involved.Most cant pour piss out of a boot with the instructions on the heel.I tell them I run a business, not a day care.
Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:13 am
michaelharadon wrote:mike furline wrote:PbyCat-Guy wrote:
Everyone has a different story, I worked for UAL for 20 years and took an early retirement. I COULD NOT WAIT TO LEAVE. It was one of the best things I have done.
Regards,
Mike
Mike, if you are so inclined, probably a lot of us would like to read why you wanted out of UAL so badly...
Thanks,
Michael
Paycut after paycut, loss of my pension, loss of benefits, 8 years without a raise, and on and on and on. There are far to many things to list here.
The ESOP, Employee Stock Ownership Plan. Had to take a paycut on future raises to save the Company from bankruptcy and got UAL Stock in exchange. After the 6 years of ESOP ( no raise's & you weren't allowed to sell the stock) they file bankruptcy. So your stock is worthless. I lost about $150,000 on that.
If you added up all my raise's and then subtracted all the paycuts you average about 0.55% raise per year over 20 years.
I'm very confident in saying the majority of United employees are pretty bitter and fed up. A lot of guys with 20+ years are leaving and we're only in our 40's.
Not really a factor, but after 20 years I still couldn't hold dayshift. Not enough company seniority.
Most major airlines are all the same, either in bankruptcy or on thier way. For the most part it is a very poorly run industry.
Regards,
Mike
Last edited by mike furline on Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:27 am
michaelharadon wrote:mike furline wrote:PbyCat-Guy wrote:
Everyone has a different story, I worked for UAL for 20 years and took an early retirement. I COULD NOT WAIT TO LEAVE. It was one of the best things I have done.
Regards,
Mike
Mike, if you are so inclined, probably a lot of us would like to read why you wanted out of UAL so badly...
Thanks,
Michael
Michael,
I'm happy for Mike and Jeff that they escaped when they did. Working for a major makes you a number, exactly the same as any other number out there. Doesn't matter what your abilities, intelligence or work ethic are, each number is considered to be the same. This means that some do all the work but everyone is paid the same, some of them while watching the others do the work.
I'm actually envious of their escape--with the support of my wife and a very good friend I tried to get out myself this year--unfortunately for me it didn't work out as I'd hoped. I wish I still had my job at the little flight school tending to my Cessnas..........life was much more fulfilling then.
Scott the Disappointed
Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:41 am
Jeez, I had no idea. Appreciate the input. Thanks.
Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:03 am
THis is sort of scary to hear. It makes me not want to fly...
(edit-there should have been a wink there--I know this is just a piss and moan thread !)
(edit-there should have been a wink there--I know this is just a piss and moan thread !)
Last edited by muddyboots on Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:14 am
I actually don't know if I really want to get involved in the discussion or not- I am hearing a lot of valid arguments against the schools. However, I actually TEACH at one- and I see both types of students- lazy useless ones, and ones who will be great mechanics someday.
The problem we have is we are trying to push them against time- they are being rushed through the courses. However, the ones who WANT to learn to do this excel at it. I finished the course myself last year, and got my A&P in April. I maintained a 4.0 throughout, and had almost perfect attendance.(I got real sick one day, and was out for two- I could barely walk, but would have been there if I could have!) I did my very best at every class I attempted- I wanted to get the best grades, learn the most I could. I push my students to do the same, although the attitudes I have to deal with in some if them are ridiculous.
My class started with 24 students. 3 graduated 18 months later. 2 of us on time- the third took a job with USAir and had to attend their school, so his schedule got shifted. The other is a lead at Augusta now. (Of course his 10 years fixing helicopters in Columbia may have helped...)
There are slackers in every school nowadays- my sister is a professor at a major university, and her students are just as bad as some of mine. I get lazy asses who refuse to study, participate, and think they can show up whenever they want, and miss whatever they want. We don't need that type- but the people in the front are paid for QUANTITY, not QUALITY when it comes to recruiting students. Take the ads for the school OFF "The Jerry Springer SHow", and put them on History and Military Channels aircraft shows!
There are QUALITY students- and some of them are worth it from the get-go. I am getting to where I can tell which students want to be A&Ps, and which are just doing it to fill their time, and waste mine.
I get quite annoyed when one of my students fails to pass any exam. My tests are not just multiple guess- I also use oral exam style & vocabulary questions in their finals, trying to find a way to really gauge what they are learning. I am going to be adding other elements, but am still refining them. I am NOT teaching them to pass a test. I have told them this. I want them to know what the hel-l they are doing! I usually end up having to reteach subjects they should have learned in other classes, but failed to absorb.
This is an uphill battle, but one I feel is worth it. For me, I am using the time to build my skills with aviation maintenance. I have 5 years USAFR already, as a Crew Chief, so I am not locked into any singular field myself. I am working to teach others, and attempting to better my skills.
I read the students in my class the beginning of this discussion- it kinda bummed out some of them to hear what you guys thought of them and A&P schools... However, I used it to start a discussion about HOW we could improve our school & try to get a better reputation- and maybe some serious consideration for positions for those who actually work for their grades. It was good to get their opinions without BS and posturing- I don't blow sunshine up their...
I try to tell them the truth. I am also known for being one of the toughest graders in the school. If they don't know what they are talking about, they don't get passed, or at least not well. I have one student who is happy to have made his first "A" in my classes- after having breezed General.
Look- I have lots of stuff to say, but will just keep rambling. Let me put it this way: Quality students DO come out of the schools. But you need to research a little before you hire them- A bit of advice: DO give the new guys a shot- but call the school and ask for three things: First, their attendance records. We have to keep very detailed records regarding time missed, etc. If a student missed a lot of time there, then he probably did not have the dedication to the task at hand(school). Second, look at their academic records. See what kinds of grades they actually got. And see how many times they had to take a class, final, or project. Third, ask for a list of any instructors who would recommend them- and those who wouldn't. Then contact them and see why or why not. The instructors care & want only the best out there. We get paid either way, but we'd rather weed out the rotten ones early, but it doesn't always happen, as if they pass their tests, they pass the course. But if you ask us about a student, most likely we will remember stuff about them- and if they were not quality material, you'll find out. If they were, we are usually happy to recommend them. And you won't be sorry...
ALSO- A couple OTHER things you guys who deride A&P newbies can do to help improve the situation. Get with the local A&P school. Tell them exactly what you see as the problem with their "product". Any good businessman wants to satisfy his customers. Be prepared to work with them, and see if you can help institute some sort of internship program for students, to give them real world experience, and see what the job is really like. I'm not saying give them a 40 hour paying job- just something for a few hours a week, where they can come in and help you, and learn at the same time. Stop being part of the problem, and then crying about how lousy A&P students are, and how awful the schools are. Go and offer to help, and see how the students improve. See if you can't be part of the SOLUTION instead. (It was one of my students that suggested the unpaid internship concept...) You don't have to hire every one of them- set a realistic academic criteria for participation, and then the deserving ones will appear. And maybe when they finish school, they can use you as a reference- or call you "Boss", should you be so inclined. As I said to my students tonight- You get out of the A&P course what you put in to it. That goes for EMPLOYERS as well as STUDENTS.
I had recommendations from all my instructors when I graduated. 25 years of auto work, 5 years of USAFR & my A&P- they offered me a job!
My ultimate dream job is restorations. As long as I can make the house payment, and survive, I'd be happy working on antique/warbird a/c. I don't have great needs- I just love airplanes. And I can tell when one of my students does too.
Sorry for any implied ranting, just sharing my thoughts...
Robbie
The problem we have is we are trying to push them against time- they are being rushed through the courses. However, the ones who WANT to learn to do this excel at it. I finished the course myself last year, and got my A&P in April. I maintained a 4.0 throughout, and had almost perfect attendance.(I got real sick one day, and was out for two- I could barely walk, but would have been there if I could have!) I did my very best at every class I attempted- I wanted to get the best grades, learn the most I could. I push my students to do the same, although the attitudes I have to deal with in some if them are ridiculous.
My class started with 24 students. 3 graduated 18 months later. 2 of us on time- the third took a job with USAir and had to attend their school, so his schedule got shifted. The other is a lead at Augusta now. (Of course his 10 years fixing helicopters in Columbia may have helped...)
There are slackers in every school nowadays- my sister is a professor at a major university, and her students are just as bad as some of mine. I get lazy asses who refuse to study, participate, and think they can show up whenever they want, and miss whatever they want. We don't need that type- but the people in the front are paid for QUANTITY, not QUALITY when it comes to recruiting students. Take the ads for the school OFF "The Jerry Springer SHow", and put them on History and Military Channels aircraft shows!
There are QUALITY students- and some of them are worth it from the get-go. I am getting to where I can tell which students want to be A&Ps, and which are just doing it to fill their time, and waste mine.
I get quite annoyed when one of my students fails to pass any exam. My tests are not just multiple guess- I also use oral exam style & vocabulary questions in their finals, trying to find a way to really gauge what they are learning. I am going to be adding other elements, but am still refining them. I am NOT teaching them to pass a test. I have told them this. I want them to know what the hel-l they are doing! I usually end up having to reteach subjects they should have learned in other classes, but failed to absorb.
This is an uphill battle, but one I feel is worth it. For me, I am using the time to build my skills with aviation maintenance. I have 5 years USAFR already, as a Crew Chief, so I am not locked into any singular field myself. I am working to teach others, and attempting to better my skills.
I read the students in my class the beginning of this discussion- it kinda bummed out some of them to hear what you guys thought of them and A&P schools... However, I used it to start a discussion about HOW we could improve our school & try to get a better reputation- and maybe some serious consideration for positions for those who actually work for their grades. It was good to get their opinions without BS and posturing- I don't blow sunshine up their...
I try to tell them the truth. I am also known for being one of the toughest graders in the school. If they don't know what they are talking about, they don't get passed, or at least not well. I have one student who is happy to have made his first "A" in my classes- after having breezed General.
Look- I have lots of stuff to say, but will just keep rambling. Let me put it this way: Quality students DO come out of the schools. But you need to research a little before you hire them- A bit of advice: DO give the new guys a shot- but call the school and ask for three things: First, their attendance records. We have to keep very detailed records regarding time missed, etc. If a student missed a lot of time there, then he probably did not have the dedication to the task at hand(school). Second, look at their academic records. See what kinds of grades they actually got. And see how many times they had to take a class, final, or project. Third, ask for a list of any instructors who would recommend them- and those who wouldn't. Then contact them and see why or why not. The instructors care & want only the best out there. We get paid either way, but we'd rather weed out the rotten ones early, but it doesn't always happen, as if they pass their tests, they pass the course. But if you ask us about a student, most likely we will remember stuff about them- and if they were not quality material, you'll find out. If they were, we are usually happy to recommend them. And you won't be sorry...
ALSO- A couple OTHER things you guys who deride A&P newbies can do to help improve the situation. Get with the local A&P school. Tell them exactly what you see as the problem with their "product". Any good businessman wants to satisfy his customers. Be prepared to work with them, and see if you can help institute some sort of internship program for students, to give them real world experience, and see what the job is really like. I'm not saying give them a 40 hour paying job- just something for a few hours a week, where they can come in and help you, and learn at the same time. Stop being part of the problem, and then crying about how lousy A&P students are, and how awful the schools are. Go and offer to help, and see how the students improve. See if you can't be part of the SOLUTION instead. (It was one of my students that suggested the unpaid internship concept...) You don't have to hire every one of them- set a realistic academic criteria for participation, and then the deserving ones will appear. And maybe when they finish school, they can use you as a reference- or call you "Boss", should you be so inclined. As I said to my students tonight- You get out of the A&P course what you put in to it. That goes for EMPLOYERS as well as STUDENTS.
I had recommendations from all my instructors when I graduated. 25 years of auto work, 5 years of USAFR & my A&P- they offered me a job!
My ultimate dream job is restorations. As long as I can make the house payment, and survive, I'd be happy working on antique/warbird a/c. I don't have great needs- I just love airplanes. And I can tell when one of my students does too.
Sorry for any implied ranting, just sharing my thoughts...
Robbie
Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:22 am
The one thing I continually hammer into my students from Boeing is
'every time you touch that airplane, no matter what you do, you are directly impacting the lives of millions of people you will never meet. If you do something that isn't right or correct, 350 people die in a corn field because you screwed up. If you can live with that then nothing I can say will mean anything to you, except this. As a life long professional mechanic if you take that attitude, I personally donot want you in my profession, I consider you to be a potential murderer and my industry would be so much better off if you would go find work elsewhere'
' I pledged to myself when I started in this business that if I ever knowingly did something that caused people to die, I'd run off a high bridge caring a heavy anchor because I could not live with myself'
That leads to a very quiet room for a few seconds and a very subdued first hour, but they get the message.
Why would anyone spend $30K for an A&P license? you get exactly the same part 147 from an approved Community College for around $1500, or is it the eyewash from saying "I went to Embarrasingly Ridiculous"
It's the same federally mandated cirriculum, in five years from your graduation all I want to know is 'can you do this job correctly and legally within the time constraints placed on the job?' Beyond that, I don't care where you got your wet ink license to learn, and learn you had better, every day you better end the day knowing one thing more than you did when you got out of bed, if you can't, or won't learn, go do something else because the industry can't use you. I'm over 60 and everything I used to know is out the window as far as germain to todays fleets, I used to be the guy on 727's and MD-80's, now I'm busting my old fanny to be the guy on the 787 because thats whats important right now.
It's a lack of determination on the part of the schools to attempt to push the student to think or reason things out, 'don't make me even try to do that, I'm the entitled generation' kid, the only thing you are entitled to is to bust your hump for 50 years like I've had to do, the only guy who'll come to the door looking for you is the Sheriff,we get kids in training who have never lifted the hood on their car! And they all think an airplane can be texted together and it shows in their horrible projects, the complete lack of any curiosity, and the complete lack of motor skills and coordination between hand and teeny brain. We've had a few people retaking these courses so long that we almost want to get them mascot uniforms.
'every time you touch that airplane, no matter what you do, you are directly impacting the lives of millions of people you will never meet. If you do something that isn't right or correct, 350 people die in a corn field because you screwed up. If you can live with that then nothing I can say will mean anything to you, except this. As a life long professional mechanic if you take that attitude, I personally donot want you in my profession, I consider you to be a potential murderer and my industry would be so much better off if you would go find work elsewhere'
' I pledged to myself when I started in this business that if I ever knowingly did something that caused people to die, I'd run off a high bridge caring a heavy anchor because I could not live with myself'
That leads to a very quiet room for a few seconds and a very subdued first hour, but they get the message.
Why would anyone spend $30K for an A&P license? you get exactly the same part 147 from an approved Community College for around $1500, or is it the eyewash from saying "I went to Embarrasingly Ridiculous"
It's the same federally mandated cirriculum, in five years from your graduation all I want to know is 'can you do this job correctly and legally within the time constraints placed on the job?' Beyond that, I don't care where you got your wet ink license to learn, and learn you had better, every day you better end the day knowing one thing more than you did when you got out of bed, if you can't, or won't learn, go do something else because the industry can't use you. I'm over 60 and everything I used to know is out the window as far as germain to todays fleets, I used to be the guy on 727's and MD-80's, now I'm busting my old fanny to be the guy on the 787 because thats whats important right now.
It's a lack of determination on the part of the schools to attempt to push the student to think or reason things out, 'don't make me even try to do that, I'm the entitled generation' kid, the only thing you are entitled to is to bust your hump for 50 years like I've had to do, the only guy who'll come to the door looking for you is the Sheriff,we get kids in training who have never lifted the hood on their car! And they all think an airplane can be texted together and it shows in their horrible projects, the complete lack of any curiosity, and the complete lack of motor skills and coordination between hand and teeny brain. We've had a few people retaking these courses so long that we almost want to get them mascot uniforms.
Some things never change
Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:04 am
every time you touch that airplane, no matter what you do, you are directly impacting the lives of millions of people you will never meet. If you do something that isn't right or correct, 350 people die in a corn field because you screwed up.
Was taught the same thing at QANTAS twenty odd years ago.Got no idea what went wrong with them to be what they are now..
The skills are dissapearing in the Sheety trade big time.Knowing how to work a bit of ally is up there with Witchcraft now.It is all buy and replace instead of work out,make and paint.Getting kids interested enough to "create" something is the key.Being proud isn,t important.Being arrogant and selfish is.Darn I miss the old days...
Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:56 am
Thanks to everyone for putting in their 2 cents. A few more thoughts:
1. Most of the students that were in my A&P classes had, at least initially, a true desire to be there and learn. That seemed to evaporate in most of them after a while.
2. Anybody (well, most anybody) can be trained how to do the job if they really want to learn. Hell, I'm exhibit A for that.
3. The best resume I have ever seen from a new A&P was the guy who, after dropping off his paper, showed us the 1984 Monte Carlo he restored while in school, it was the only car he had and so as he went through school he applied everything he learned to rebuilding his old clunker. it looked like a new car. I don't think we ever actually even read his resume, he did good from day 1.
True story: I gave an instructor from the A&P school a job in my shop, I felt sorry for him because he had 2 disabled kids and needed extra money. I asked him to do basic servicing on a bonanza while I was busy at another airport. I came back 2 days later, he told me he had spent 2 days /16 billable hours getting the wheel bearings greased. that's all he had done. a 3 hour job with smoke and lunch break thrown in at worst.
I had to let him go when he got pissed off and demanded pay for 16 hours after only greasing bearings. AND HE WAS AN A&P SCHOOL INSTRUCTOR FOR GOD"S SAKE!!!!!!
1. Most of the students that were in my A&P classes had, at least initially, a true desire to be there and learn. That seemed to evaporate in most of them after a while.
2. Anybody (well, most anybody) can be trained how to do the job if they really want to learn. Hell, I'm exhibit A for that.
3. The best resume I have ever seen from a new A&P was the guy who, after dropping off his paper, showed us the 1984 Monte Carlo he restored while in school, it was the only car he had and so as he went through school he applied everything he learned to rebuilding his old clunker. it looked like a new car. I don't think we ever actually even read his resume, he did good from day 1.
True story: I gave an instructor from the A&P school a job in my shop, I felt sorry for him because he had 2 disabled kids and needed extra money. I asked him to do basic servicing on a bonanza while I was busy at another airport. I came back 2 days later, he told me he had spent 2 days /16 billable hours getting the wheel bearings greased. that's all he had done. a 3 hour job with smoke and lunch break thrown in at worst.
I had to let him go when he got pissed off and demanded pay for 16 hours after only greasing bearings. AND HE WAS AN A&P SCHOOL INSTRUCTOR FOR GOD"S SAKE!!!!!!
Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:16 am
I think some of the best mechanics I have met were those trained at smaller independent schools that specialized in A&P mechanics only but those are getting harder to find.
In the case of my old school it used to be that if their name was on a resume' you could count on them knowing the basics and being willing to ask before they tackled something they didn't know. Not so anymore. But if you do find someone already dedicated to the profession then they will be o.k. (My old school had an airworthy hangar that only the most senior students got to work in. Everyone looked to that moment in thier schooling. They haven't done that in years. Why? Liability Insurance!)
The community college path is probably the best value with typically smaller classes and more hands on training sometimes on real aircraft. It might mean moving and establishing residency to qualify for tje course at the in state tuition rate.
The most versatile and mechanically inclined mechs were those that got thier tickets through experience. They have typically spent 5 to 10 years working somewhere in aviation and learning all the time before they went for their tests.
In the case of my old school it used to be that if their name was on a resume' you could count on them knowing the basics and being willing to ask before they tackled something they didn't know. Not so anymore. But if you do find someone already dedicated to the profession then they will be o.k. (My old school had an airworthy hangar that only the most senior students got to work in. Everyone looked to that moment in thier schooling. They haven't done that in years. Why? Liability Insurance!)
The community college path is probably the best value with typically smaller classes and more hands on training sometimes on real aircraft. It might mean moving and establishing residency to qualify for tje course at the in state tuition rate.
The most versatile and mechanically inclined mechs were those that got thier tickets through experience. They have typically spent 5 to 10 years working somewhere in aviation and learning all the time before they went for their tests.