Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:42 pm
Bill just wants the "Bill and Hillary show" back.
Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:10 pm
What I want to know is why we arn't on 2 planets ( MARS, MOON ECT) by now... Vonbraun saw the shuttle as a waste of Time and I agree.. A stunt show. It doesn't even leave earths orbit. We should have been building bigger Saturn IV rockets and been on the moon by now! It was 10 years from zero to the moon and almost 30 years has passed and we are status quoe... I never saw the future as it is now....Disaponinted... When I went on the VIP tour not the bus tour but the real VIp tour.. I went into the vechile assy building and the shuttle prossesing center and engine shop. Pretty impressive but along ways from where we should have been.
Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:19 pm
any highly technical luxuries or necessities which all civilian people take for granted now days can be attributed to the research, & developement of the space program & the military. the computer had it's humble beginnings with both entities........ & the list of progress now goes on!!
Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:33 pm
We've gotten much more out of space than the war on poverty. Maritime terrestrial and airborne navigation have never been safer. Many plastics and adhesives also can be traced to space.
What advances can be traced to the trillions spent on the war on poverty?
BTW
How green are fuel cells? You have to burn coal to make the H2 and O2 for the fuel cell. Water vapor is also a green house gas.
What advances can be traced to the trillions spent on the war on poverty?
BTW
How green are fuel cells? You have to burn coal to make the H2 and O2 for the fuel cell. Water vapor is also a green house gas.
NASA Spinoffs
Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:49 pm
Bill,
I work for NASA in the Space Shuttle Program. I disagree with your post wholeheartedly. Rather than try and convey to you the benefits in this limited space I point you to the following websites:
http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/
http://www.thespaceplace.com/nasa/spinoffs.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_Spino ... A_spinoffs
There are many more sites out there.
By the way, we have flown 10 space shuttle missions from 2005 thru 2008.
Shep
I work for NASA in the Space Shuttle Program. I disagree with your post wholeheartedly. Rather than try and convey to you the benefits in this limited space I point you to the following websites:
http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/
http://www.thespaceplace.com/nasa/spinoffs.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_Spino ... A_spinoffs
There are many more sites out there.
By the way, we have flown 10 space shuttle missions from 2005 thru 2008.
Shep
Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:50 pm
Problems with the internet...always make me suspicious of the rest of the stuff.
Gary found a list of things supposedly the result of the Space Race and I think a lot of those are accurate, but...that list also claimed that satellites allowed us to see the assassination of JFK. Well, that would be false. There was a not a live broadcast from the grassy knoll, otherwise the Zapruder film would be insignificant. We did see Oswald get it in the basement "live" and we did see everything related to the funeral "live" that weekend.
When I see that type of mis-statement, I am suspicious of the accuracy of the rest of that list.
No offense meant to Gary..ever...he's one of my personal warbird hero's.
Gary found a list of things supposedly the result of the Space Race and I think a lot of those are accurate, but...that list also claimed that satellites allowed us to see the assassination of JFK. Well, that would be false. There was a not a live broadcast from the grassy knoll, otherwise the Zapruder film would be insignificant. We did see Oswald get it in the basement "live" and we did see everything related to the funeral "live" that weekend.
When I see that type of mis-statement, I am suspicious of the accuracy of the rest of that list.
No offense meant to Gary..ever...he's one of my personal warbird hero's.
war
Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:57 pm
O2, well I am not too convinced when I ask a question and the answer is that you give a question about another topic and another program., rather than real, direct, and concrete returns to the taxpayer.
The war on poverty was not part of my topic or my question nor the space program. But if it was, that program has provided food, housing, health care and job training, especially for kids, the handicapped and others with less than we have. It is not a big cool techno thing like a rocket , but some folks, especially at Christmas time might consider that worthwhile.
Now I am not an expert on Jesus or the Bible, but in all the readings or programs I have seen about him, I don't recall any where he was advocating more weapons and more machines over human welfare.
Shep, you work for NASA and you disagree with me. That's not too much of a surprise is it? At least you are honest enough to reveal the source of your bias.And I took a look at your sites, I agree NASA has a good PR arm. But I still can't get too excited that better golf balls and swim suits is much of a return on investment for the average taxpayer. If this stuff was really all that valuable then NASA could operate as a commercial enterprise making a profit off these sales rather than as a drain on taxpayers. They sure don't do that.
The war on poverty was not part of my topic or my question nor the space program. But if it was, that program has provided food, housing, health care and job training, especially for kids, the handicapped and others with less than we have. It is not a big cool techno thing like a rocket , but some folks, especially at Christmas time might consider that worthwhile.
Now I am not an expert on Jesus or the Bible, but in all the readings or programs I have seen about him, I don't recall any where he was advocating more weapons and more machines over human welfare.
Shep, you work for NASA and you disagree with me. That's not too much of a surprise is it? At least you are honest enough to reveal the source of your bias.And I took a look at your sites, I agree NASA has a good PR arm. But I still can't get too excited that better golf balls and swim suits is much of a return on investment for the average taxpayer. If this stuff was really all that valuable then NASA could operate as a commercial enterprise making a profit off these sales rather than as a drain on taxpayers. They sure don't do that.
Last edited by Bill Greenwood on Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:00 pm
The last few Apollo launches got me out of the classroom in early grade school for school assemblies so we could all watch the Saturn V rocket lift off the pad so it was worth it to me. Plus it gave way to some really cool lunch boxes. Way better to spend money on the space program and the technological dividends it paid than all the "Great Society" money wasted on solving nothing and only creating an ever growing dependent welfare class--but crucial voting blocks for self-serving politicians in both parties. And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming... Bill, any updates on your Spitfire?
Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:11 pm
It's all very well being critical, Bill, but your presumption is flawed.
Talk to any research scientist about 'return on investment' and you should get a blank look. Sadly too many of them are now used to parroting various responses about as reliably as those whose jobs are about return on investment - and who currently have dug us all into a fine mess. At least no-one was expecting a profit from the space race.
The work of the space scientists (globally) is a modern mix of exploration and science discovery. It's not about finding gold over the next horizon, but because humanity needs to strive to reach further than before.
'Because it's there'.
As for someone working for NASA having a bias, at least he's happy working for them - unlike those of us who have been sharing about the issues of working for the airlines etc.
Cheers,
Talk to any research scientist about 'return on investment' and you should get a blank look. Sadly too many of them are now used to parroting various responses about as reliably as those whose jobs are about return on investment - and who currently have dug us all into a fine mess. At least no-one was expecting a profit from the space race.
The work of the space scientists (globally) is a modern mix of exploration and science discovery. It's not about finding gold over the next horizon, but because humanity needs to strive to reach further than before.
'Because it's there'.
As for someone working for NASA having a bias, at least he's happy working for them - unlike those of us who have been sharing about the issues of working for the airlines etc.
Cheers,
Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:12 pm
Bill,
We can agree to disagree. However, to put it all into perspective, NASA's current FY 2008 budget of $17.318 billion represents about 0.6% of the $2.9 trillion United States federal budget.
Shep
We can agree to disagree. However, to put it all into perspective, NASA's current FY 2008 budget of $17.318 billion represents about 0.6% of the $2.9 trillion United States federal budget.
Shep
.6%
Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:27 pm
Shep Jr, NASA's budget is only .6% of the US total so it's ok if much of it is boondoggle and not a benefit to most people.
Now O J only killed 2 of about 300,000 people, which is .000006 %, so why even pay any attention to that or even have a trial?
And JDK, "humanity needs to strive to reach further than before" and "because it's there". If that is not a pile of amorphous BS then I haven't seen one. If the govt takes our taxes to build a road or a hospital or a school or a retirement fund or an airport, we get something back for our money. Maybe not all for everyone, but there is a direct benefit. Not so with space.
By the way, JDK on another topic, I had a lot more respect for your postings and your opinions on WIX before you became a junior censor. Perhaps you missed your calling, Gonzales beat you to it.
Now O J only killed 2 of about 300,000 people, which is .000006 %, so why even pay any attention to that or even have a trial?
And JDK, "humanity needs to strive to reach further than before" and "because it's there". If that is not a pile of amorphous BS then I haven't seen one. If the govt takes our taxes to build a road or a hospital or a school or a retirement fund or an airport, we get something back for our money. Maybe not all for everyone, but there is a direct benefit. Not so with space.
By the way, JDK on another topic, I had a lot more respect for your postings and your opinions on WIX before you became a junior censor. Perhaps you missed your calling, Gonzales beat you to it.
Last edited by Bill Greenwood on Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: .6%
Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:36 pm
Bill, I don't think you've got any converts on this one! I'm happy to see you play iconoclast, but I'm not with you here. I have 0 interest in space, but I don't think your view works. It's not about investment, but exploration and science. I don't think measuring spinoffs is important either.
And the the comparison to murder isn't really on.
Fair enough to throw up the question in the air, but time to consider why you're looking real lonely on the topic - is it 'everyone else', or might it just be 'you'?
And the the comparison to murder isn't really on.
Fair enough to throw up the question in the air, but time to consider why you're looking real lonely on the topic - is it 'everyone else', or might it just be 'you'?
Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:40 pm
Like I said we can agree to disagree. You have made up your mind that the NASA mission is worthless and you are entitled to your opinion. However, I am entitled to mine and other members of this forum are entitled to their opinions. It is my opinion that your OJ analogy is like comparing apples to oranges and is really not relevant to the arguement.
PS, there is a lot of job satisfaction working on a vehicle that can go from 0 to 17,500 mph in 8 1/2 minutes.
Shep
PS, there is a lot of job satisfaction working on a vehicle that can go from 0 to 17,500 mph in 8 1/2 minutes.
Shep
Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:45 pm
sheppjr,
Are you related at all to Alan Sheppard, or are you just using that name because you hold him in high esteem?
Just curious.
Are you related at all to Alan Sheppard, or are you just using that name because you hold him in high esteem?
Just curious.
Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:50 pm
Nope not related. His last name is spelled with 1 p and mine is spelled with 2. I have been asked that question at least 50 times over the last 20 years. Shep is just an old college nickname.
Shep
Shep