Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:18 am
brucev wrote:muddyboots wrote:Doood what an awful argument!
can you not read the sarcasm dripping from my post?
*listens to the sounds of brucey's sarcasm woooshing over his head*
Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:34 am
true dat. We should defnietly get rid of social security and nemployement insurance 
I know what you mean and am kidding. I think our biggest problem is that there was a major startegic mistake of building the space shuttlecock, which has turned out to be too much too early.
What we REALLY should have been doing all this time is developing better and cheaper fuels and engines, so we could actually afford this game for real. Instead we have spent tremendous amount of money on an usafe tinker toy simply to keep the children interested. Screw the children. I want to mine mars for god's sake. And we CAN. We right now have off the shelf equipment that could get us there. All we would realy need to do is preposition supplies well along the track there, and find fools crazy enough to want to spend the year/s it will take to get there. And we don't actually have to send people there, or to the moon. We have ample practice at robotics and power generation to do this for realz. The only reason we have not is because we were dumping all our money into the shuttle.
We've been sending dinky little moon rovers up there. WTF? we should be building a real craft capable of getting there, and doing REAL research. Don't get me wrong: the shuttle has been a valuable source of information. But it's nothing we couldn't have been doing far more cheaply and effectively with good old fashions ICBM's as our mules.
I personally am very happy to see the shuttle retired. I watched it on a number of liftoffs as a kid, had family working for NASA, and was a full fledged shuttle junkie. But it was a mistake, looking back. Now we need to get our asses in gear and do this for real.
I know what you mean and am kidding. I think our biggest problem is that there was a major startegic mistake of building the space shuttlecock, which has turned out to be too much too early.
What we REALLY should have been doing all this time is developing better and cheaper fuels and engines, so we could actually afford this game for real. Instead we have spent tremendous amount of money on an usafe tinker toy simply to keep the children interested. Screw the children. I want to mine mars for god's sake. And we CAN. We right now have off the shelf equipment that could get us there. All we would realy need to do is preposition supplies well along the track there, and find fools crazy enough to want to spend the year/s it will take to get there. And we don't actually have to send people there, or to the moon. We have ample practice at robotics and power generation to do this for realz. The only reason we have not is because we were dumping all our money into the shuttle.
We've been sending dinky little moon rovers up there. WTF? we should be building a real craft capable of getting there, and doing REAL research. Don't get me wrong: the shuttle has been a valuable source of information. But it's nothing we couldn't have been doing far more cheaply and effectively with good old fashions ICBM's as our mules.
I personally am very happy to see the shuttle retired. I watched it on a number of liftoffs as a kid, had family working for NASA, and was a full fledged shuttle junkie. But it was a mistake, looking back. Now we need to get our asses in gear and do this for real.
Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:53 pm
We could never mine mars. It would cost more for the 1,000,000,000 gallons of gas to get there than the copper or gold that comes back.
Unless you muddyboots want to live on mars with bill, and mine the gas for you own personal use and start a war on your own planet...Then you both would be real space cadets.
Not that you aren't already. 
Unless you muddyboots want to live on mars with bill, and mine the gas for you own personal use and start a war on your own planet...Then you both would be real space cadets.
Not that you aren't already.
Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:22 am
Actually AC2, we could do it. All we have to do is get out of earth orbit.The shuttle was claimed to be that way despite the arguments of an awful lot of people who wanted to continue throwaways in order to get hardware up, and then begin building a real space station capable of true long-term inhabitation (under spin gravity so we woulnd't have near earth G living conditions), which would have given us a platform from which to move further
We do that, all we have to do is slingshot our gear to Mars. When we get there, we build a rather large railgun to throw the mined and processed material back out into Mars orbit. Do that and we can again slingshot the goods back here with minimal fuel costs.
On planet power could pretty easily be collected vie geothermal heat (Mars core is still hot) and melting the water which has been proved to exist.
Crews will have to be planned as long term (career length) comitments, and we won't be able to do it small. That same water could support human life, industrial projects and thruster fuel.
All this stuff has been theorized and amazingly enough, it isn't that we can't do it, it's that we can't commit because...we'd rather play with tinker toys.
LIke I keep saying, we need to quit playing wit the toys and start working to adapt off the shelf tech to getting ourselves out there and working. Space isn't the final frontier: it's the greatest resource we will ever have. And we're ignoring it.
Want iron? Mine asteroids. Want power? It's out there as well. Want water? Out there. The only thing really missing is commitment.
All of this stuff but the gettig out of our own gravity well we can already do. We just wasted the last 30 years not learning how to do that.
You ARE right about one thing: It would be a one way trip, or a 20 year one if we want to do it right. The effects of living under Mars gravity that long would criplle the people we send there unless we find some way of preventing low G effects on their bones, heart, nervous system, etc. Once they are there, well...the first few generations might well be there for life.
Ask any audience of hardcore space junkies if they'd be willing to pay that price. Just go ahead and ask
We do that, all we have to do is slingshot our gear to Mars. When we get there, we build a rather large railgun to throw the mined and processed material back out into Mars orbit. Do that and we can again slingshot the goods back here with minimal fuel costs.
On planet power could pretty easily be collected vie geothermal heat (Mars core is still hot) and melting the water which has been proved to exist.
Crews will have to be planned as long term (career length) comitments, and we won't be able to do it small. That same water could support human life, industrial projects and thruster fuel.
All this stuff has been theorized and amazingly enough, it isn't that we can't do it, it's that we can't commit because...we'd rather play with tinker toys.
LIke I keep saying, we need to quit playing wit the toys and start working to adapt off the shelf tech to getting ourselves out there and working. Space isn't the final frontier: it's the greatest resource we will ever have. And we're ignoring it.
Want iron? Mine asteroids. Want power? It's out there as well. Want water? Out there. The only thing really missing is commitment.
All of this stuff but the gettig out of our own gravity well we can already do. We just wasted the last 30 years not learning how to do that.
You ARE right about one thing: It would be a one way trip, or a 20 year one if we want to do it right. The effects of living under Mars gravity that long would criplle the people we send there unless we find some way of preventing low G effects on their bones, heart, nervous system, etc. Once they are there, well...the first few generations might well be there for life.
Ask any audience of hardcore space junkies if they'd be willing to pay that price. Just go ahead and ask
Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:38 am
That's an ingenious point Muddyboots. I never thought about it before, but that's probably why God created the other planets, so we could mine them when resources on earth run out in 500 years..
Maybe you should change your handle to "Sagan", seriously, you've made an intriguing point..
Maybe you should change your handle to "Sagan", seriously, you've made an intriguing point..
Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:48 am
well, it would take billions and billions >channels Carl Sagan< of dollars
Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:52 am
he he
Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:34 am
muddy buddy already has gasA2C wrote:We could never mine mars. It would cost more for the 1,000,000,000 gallons of gas to get there than the copper or gold that comes back.
Unless you muddyboots want to live on mars with bill, and mine the gas for you own personal use and start a war on your own planet...Then you both would be real space cadets.
Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:37 am
how long will it take for me to get my pay check if i go???
Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:27 pm
I guess it would be a month by month like anybody else. But your wife would get it anyway. Better make sure you choose a good one. 20 years is a long time to go without seeing your husband. Actually, it migt not be such a bad idea after the first five years...
Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:21 pm
I think some of the money spent for the space program has been worth it.
I am a big supporter of space exploration. (see my avatar…)
The only problem is that human beings in addition to being the grand explorers that they are... also take the entire BS with them.
http://www.postalmuseum.si.edu/stampstakeflight/apollo15video-01.html
So... I still support space exploration...
As a species we are explorers after all.
And to answer the question is it worth it? I would say yes.
But is it worth it for little Timmy to starve because we want to get a stamp canceled? Not really.
That is the problem with any program. (any govt program) There is always the necessary BS that goes with it.
Now if there was a way to get rid of the …
I am a big supporter of space exploration. (see my avatar…)
The only problem is that human beings in addition to being the grand explorers that they are... also take the entire BS with them.
http://www.postalmuseum.si.edu/stampstakeflight/apollo15video-01.html
Transcript of Video:
Dave Scott:
To show that our good Postal Service has deliveries any place in the universe, I have the pleasant task of canceling, here on the Moon, the first stamp of a new issue dedicated to commemorate United States achievements in space.
And I'm sure a lot of people have seen pictures of the stamp. I have the first one here on an envelope. At the bottom it says, " United States in Space, a decade of achievement," and I'm very proud to have the opportunity here to play postman.
I pull out a cancellation device. Cancel this stamp. It says, " August the second, 1971, first day of issue.” What could be a better place to cancel this stamp than right here at Hadley Rille.
By golly, it even works in a vacuum.
So... I still support space exploration...
As a species we are explorers after all.
And to answer the question is it worth it? I would say yes.
But is it worth it for little Timmy to starve because we want to get a stamp canceled? Not really.
That is the problem with any program. (any govt program) There is always the necessary BS that goes with it.
Now if there was a way to get rid of the …
Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:03 pm
brain fart...... & where will i spend it?? in a star wars bar??tom d. friedman wrote:how long will it take for me to get my pay check if i go???
Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:25 pm
how long will it take for me to get my pay check if i go???
brain fart...... & where will i spend it?? in a star wars bar??
It depends who's your boss. if it's Muddy, you'll be lucky to have made to Marsw/o getting lost. If it's Bill, you may both kill eachother before you get there.
Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:05 pm
That's why you'll need a wife back home, Tom.tom d. friedman wrote:brain fart...... & where will i spend it?? in a star wars bar??tom d. friedman wrote:how long will it take for me to get my pay check if i go???
I'd suggest a really ugly one. Well, for you anyway. Seriously, since crews would spend a long time out there, we'd probably have to go coed and forget about a cash money economy for a while, dontcha think? I'm not sure why you think this is so silly. A hundred years ago folks like you were lauging at folks like me who wanted to slap a 4 cylynder on a dog house and mount some fifty cals on there and go zooming around shooting teh red baron up...And guess what? Ya'll were wrong then too.
I always find it sort of humorous that you flat earthers can't simply google the stuff and find out for yourselves, but whatever
Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:06 am
how long will it take for me to get my pay check if i go???
brain fart...... & where will i spend it?? in a star wars bar??
HA HA HA!
Anyway, I've heard there's a few of those bars in Roswell. I think muddy frequents the bar as Guido, I mean Greedo.
That is when they're not discussing their abduction memories, or discussing where in space Blago came from..
Or about the spaceship being built in their backyard.. By the way how good are you at welding?