Warbird Information Exchange

Well, it's the end of the year and here at work we have been busy ordering equipment and tools out of our leftover budget. It's use it or lose it, but most of the stuff we're ordering should have been sourced long ago.
Anyway, the conversation here at work lately the A&P's have been having is what would make the ultimate/ideal airplane workshop? several of our guys are getting ready to retire and the conversations may turn into reality!
Here's what we've come up with:
A reasonably uncrowded airport. the shop should be on land you either own or are master leaseholder, no rentals where the landlord freaks out when you paint something.
everything in the snap-on catalog X 2
A wind turbine/windmill like Jay Leno has to keep electric costs down.
Building size at least 80x80. Insulated with air circulating fans. Polished or painted floors. swing out overhead hangar door. Overhead crane.
nobody can agree on a heating system, choices were heated floor, radiant heaters and forced air. what do you think?
Machine shop: Lathe, Mill, large bandsaw.
Sheet metal: brake, shear, rollers, english wheels (freestanding and benchtop) planishing hammer setup. maybe even a waterjet cutting room, they can be found affordably on Evilbay I've heard.
Spray painting booth, large air compressor w/ filters etc.
TiG welder, large grit blast cabinet, parts washer.
Parts room, computer with printer that can handle engineering copies. old school drafting table.
work stands, workbenches on wheels. Heavy duty to light A/c jacks.
Radio/avionics room with room to do harness layouts, with power supplies, etc.
fridge full of beer and an easy chair..... Feel free to add to the list!!


Mods feel free to move this to maint. section where it will be ignored.

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All I did was press this red button here...

There is no question that heated floors are the best for the shop area. After being around heavy equipment shops and ready mix concrete plants for some 40 years in Minnesota (one of those places it gets cold for more than a few days) we have been putting in-floor heat in the new shops and plants. Very nice recovery time after the doors have been open and the warm air is down where people are working. The old forced air heated buildings were hot up by the ceiling and your feet were cold. The radiant systems work well if you don't have to work under things like trucks loaders ect. because if you are in the "shade" the floor gets cold. The roof elevation on the plants is about 60' and there is only about 3 deg differece from the floor the the ceiling. A small forced air system works well in the office area though so it can be A/C'd. We've been building the walls with ICF (Insulated concrete forms). There are several manufactures making this product. The system we use has 2" of styrofoam on both the inside and outside with the void for concrete between them, several wall thicknes's are avalible. R value is over 20 and it is also very wind tight, very quite and storm resistant. The bridge crane idea is great. We have one in the main shop, spans 70' cap 7.5 ton. Best money ever spent! Hugh

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My father was a a/c armorer 7th aaf 318FG 73FS

Hangar should be at least 100'x100' with 20' minimum interior clear height. You need enough height to swing the gear on the biggest thing you would ever want in the hangar.

For equipment, don't forget a cold saw, small heat treat oven, an Eckold shrinker/stretcher, MAHO 700 or better 4 axis CNC mill, Monarch 75 CNC mill, a Bridgeport Series 2 or equivalent manual mill, a SIP jig bore, 12x48 CNC lathe with bar feed, a medium sized surface grinder and same sized ID/OD centerless grinder, Dariex M5 or better drill grinder and an end mill sharpener fixture. Add in a couple of 36x72 surface plates and a dedicated tooling room and tool fixture table and a good optical comparator.

In a seperate room, a high quality cabinet saw, bandsaw, Lion trimmer, miter saw and a CNC router.

Computer wise, a couple of networked fast multiprocessor machines, a couple of seats of SolidWorks or equivalent, a roll feed E sized plotter, laser printer capable of 11x17 prints, flatbed and slide scanners and at least a dozen terrabytes of networked storage.

These additions would give a shop the capability to handle anything short of pulling extrusions and big heat treating as well as book production.

Marvelous stuff. But sounds a lot like the do it yourself shows. Step One: Buy $100,000 worth of shop equipment....

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"I can't understand it, I cut it twice and it's still too short!" Robert F. Dupre' 1923-2010 Go With God.

I can easily think of several pieces of 'shop equipment' that will blow 100 grand out of the water and would fit in the back of a 93 Suzuki SAMURAI-
start with a CNC 5 axis Bridgeport

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Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

So what would the model# be for a good 5 axis CNC?
I would like to be able to use autocad since I already know the program.
I have been giving some thought to a CNC.
Chuck

I'd throw in a little Al Bundy and a little Tim "the toolman" Taylor into any "ultimate shop"

Rich

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Rich Kolasa
www.crystalgraphix.com

And some Red Green as well!

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All right, Mister Dorfmann, start pullin'!
Pilot: "Flap switch works hard in down position."
Mechanic: "Flap switch checked OK. Pilot needs more P.T." - Flight report, TB-17G 42-102875 (Hobbs AAF)

Surely the ideal shop would also have some old guy who doesn't actually do much work but knows every part by sight and knows all the little tricks that aren't in the manuals but can get a job done in half the time.

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Wow, has it really been that long since I last visited?

Have heard rumors that Bridgeport is no longer in business. Might make it a bit hard to get factory service if that is the case...Bridgeport does make some very good manual mills!

Purely fantasy shop? How about a 5-axis Mori Seiki MV-500 with programmable rotary table for contour milling? Ever seen helical interpolation done on a machine like that? Greatgooglymoogly...pure porrrrrn to watch one of them run! For smaller stuff...Mori Seiki MV-40...Spitfire of CNC mills!

HAAS makes some very user friendly machines...don"t hold-up to heavy duty machining as well as Mori Seiki or MAZAK.

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Earn my respect and never lose it.
Demand my respect and never gain it. -Me

...just another plane dreamer.

The ultimate hangar will have to be biggger than 100'x100'. Has to be big enough to get that B-17 in (103'). Other than that just keep the machinery coming. Don't worry about those B-29s' they got there own hangars.
Wayne the Hangar Builder

The hangar needs an outside balcony for drinking beer and watching airplanes from.

The cooler for keeping the beer cold comes under machinery. For all your Spitfire driving Limmy friends you can nuke the beer to get it warm enough for them.

Well, Ober---I have a similar plan. You may as well have one big enough for a '29 while you're at it, though . I took this photo of the hangar line at Fairmont AAF, Nebraska yesterday. Three single Fort/Superfort hangars, and in the far north background is the Sub-Depot that will fit three Forts or two B-29s.



Oh, and if anyone really wanted a hangar this size, they're tearing identical ones to these down in Pratt and Great Bend.
Scott

Ober, for once we agree. Mostly the guys at QG drink hot tea while they are working, the room temperature beer is for after hours, or they go down to the brew pub.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK