Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:57 pm
Looks like there are a couple big patches on the port-side nose, just ahead of the windscreen. Any idea what the deal is with those?
Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:02 pm
Garth wrote:Looks like there are a couple big patches on the port-side nose, just ahead of the windscreen. Any idea what the deal is with those?
Ice plates, to take impact of ice that was flung off the props
Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:07 pm
APG85 wrote:It seems like it's going to take longer than "a couple of months" for a full restoration. It appears that the plane is stripped of all military equipment, interior, gun turrets, etc. I hope they don't paint it silver. Better to have it OD green. I assume the Smithsonian will control the restoration since it will be a loaner...
Actually the Smithsonian is signing over the aircraft to the museum, its not a loaner.
Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:32 pm
bobbrunn wrote:APG85 wrote:It seems like it's going to take longer than "a couple of months" for a full restoration. It appears that the plane is stripped of all military equipment, interior, gun turrets, etc. I hope they don't paint it silver. Better to have it OD green. I assume the Smithsonian will control the restoration since it will be a loaner...
Actually the Smithsonian is signing over the aircraft to the museum, its not a loaner.
What is the Smithsonian getting out of the deal? Is there a trade involved or money?
Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:09 pm
Warbird 1, I'm sorry - did you actually read this thread?
NASM is doing a trade with NMUSAF.
...from an earlier posting in this thread, this announcement from NASM...
"“After the Air Force’s exterior restoration of the B-17F Memphis Belle is completed, the B-17G Shoo Shoo Shoo Baby will be transferred to the Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center from Dayton, Ohio. The National Air and Space Museum’s collection will be greatly enhanced by adding a combat veteran 8th Air Force B-17G -- the iconic version of that aircraft”
My interpretation is that "transferred" does NOT mean a loan, but a trade.
NASM is doing a trade with NMUSAF.
...from an earlier posting in this thread, this announcement from NASM...
"“After the Air Force’s exterior restoration of the B-17F Memphis Belle is completed, the B-17G Shoo Shoo Shoo Baby will be transferred to the Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center from Dayton, Ohio. The National Air and Space Museum’s collection will be greatly enhanced by adding a combat veteran 8th Air Force B-17G -- the iconic version of that aircraft”
My interpretation is that "transferred" does NOT mean a loan, but a trade.
Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:12 am
ww2John wrote:Warbird 1, I'm sorry - did you actually read this thread?
NASM is doing a trade with NMUSAF.
...from an earlier posting in this thread, this announcement from NASM...
"“After the Air Force’s exterior restoration of the B-17F Memphis Belle is completed, the B-17G Shoo Shoo Shoo Baby will be transferred to the Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center from Dayton, Ohio. The National Air and Space Museum’s collection will be greatly enhanced by adding a combat veteran 8th Air Force B-17G -- the iconic version of that aircraft”
My interpretation is that "transferred" does NOT mean a loan, but a trade.
I don't see anything in here about the arrangement for the Savannah B-17G. Are you saying that 44-83814 going to Georgia is part of the Swoose-Shoo Shoo Baby trade?
Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:16 am
Exterior restoration? That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. The Belle is going through a complete restoration. It is going to be at levels above SSB which most argue raised the bar for restorations. As for the trade, I am one that says there are plenty of other B-17's that the NASM could have on display in short order that are on outdoor display. Give them one of those. Why does it need to be a combat vet. That doesn't matter to them, as they had one of the most important combat vet B-17's in the world, and did nothing with it for 60 years. They are not a museum about combat, but about history and science. Give them the one from Barksdale, or the F model on out door display. I don't mean to come off as bashing but they want SSB because the work that was done by the guys in Dover is top notch, and they can put it on display as is. That being said, if it does go there, it will be in excellent hands. I just think this is a great time to get another B-17 in from the cold, and in Dayton have 3 B-17's that all tell different parts of the air war.
Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:28 am
I'm with you mustangdriver. I'd like to see the Smithsonian do a ground-up restoration on a basketcase (and we all know they would do an A+ job) rather than bring Shoo Shoo Baby over from Dayton. I still don't get why the NASM didn't want to tackle the Swoose restoration. Has their focus changed?
Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:40 am
They probably wanted the immediate gratification of getting a completed example with minimum efforts if I were to guess.
Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:07 pm
The Savannah B17, to my knowledge, is not part of the Swoose/Belle deal.
The Smithsonian is signing off on the deed to the Savannah B17 basically as a gift to the museum. The museum's purpose as proposed by Maj Gen Lewis Lyle who spearheaded the museum's development , is to preserve the Heritage of the Eighth Air Force . As a part of this it had been the desire of Gen Lyle and others involved in the museum to someday have a B17 there at the museum. As we all know there were B24s and of course P51s,P47s, and P38 groups assigned to the 8th but the B17 is the one aircraft that most symbolizes the group during WWII.
So after 14 years of effort on the part of many associated with the museum the Smithsonian agreed to help. And for that, we are very grateful.
The Smithsonian is signing off on the deed to the Savannah B17 basically as a gift to the museum. The museum's purpose as proposed by Maj Gen Lewis Lyle who spearheaded the museum's development , is to preserve the Heritage of the Eighth Air Force . As a part of this it had been the desire of Gen Lyle and others involved in the museum to someday have a B17 there at the museum. As we all know there were B24s and of course P51s,P47s, and P38 groups assigned to the 8th but the B17 is the one aircraft that most symbolizes the group during WWII.
So after 14 years of effort on the part of many associated with the museum the Smithsonian agreed to help. And for that, we are very grateful.
Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:13 pm
Hello,
My take is the same as Django: The NASM has a tremendous backlog of aircraft to restore, with none starting until after the new restoration building is built is finished in another couple of years. While the Swoose I understand was one of the early aircraft to be going into the restoration cycle, the scale of that restoration would have been similar to the Enola Gay, which took most of ten years. I think the NASM curators (I heard by a vote of 5-4) decided to let the Swoose, despite being the rarer and more historic aircraft, for to NMUSAF with the understanding that SSSB would come to Udvar Hazy.
While there is some disagreement among those of us who are particular fans of NASM about the loss of Swoose, I think it is a good arrangement. Udvar Hazy still has a lot of empty space in their WWII section, and the SSSB would nicely complement the Enola Gay, with which it would presumably overlap wings.
NASM is an amazingly generous museum. It has often given aircraft to other museums without wrangling for a trade. Note the B-17 that is the topic of this thread and the P-75 and Avro Saucer given to NMUSAF; to my knowledge, in all cases this was done without asking for anything in rerurn.
Kevin
.
My take is the same as Django: The NASM has a tremendous backlog of aircraft to restore, with none starting until after the new restoration building is built is finished in another couple of years. While the Swoose I understand was one of the early aircraft to be going into the restoration cycle, the scale of that restoration would have been similar to the Enola Gay, which took most of ten years. I think the NASM curators (I heard by a vote of 5-4) decided to let the Swoose, despite being the rarer and more historic aircraft, for to NMUSAF with the understanding that SSSB would come to Udvar Hazy.
While there is some disagreement among those of us who are particular fans of NASM about the loss of Swoose, I think it is a good arrangement. Udvar Hazy still has a lot of empty space in their WWII section, and the SSSB would nicely complement the Enola Gay, with which it would presumably overlap wings.
NASM is an amazingly generous museum. It has often given aircraft to other museums without wrangling for a trade. Note the B-17 that is the topic of this thread and the P-75 and Avro Saucer given to NMUSAF; to my knowledge, in all cases this was done without asking for anything in rerurn.
Kevin
.
Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:41 pm
Well, bottom line it's nice to see this B-17 moved to a location where it will be restored, kept indoors and put on display for people to see (especially that part of the country where there aren't any on display). It's been quite a year or so for B-17 movements and I'm happy to see the progress on these planes...
Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:56 am
mustangdriver wrote:Exterior restoration? That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. The Belle is going through a complete restoration. It is going to be at levels above SSB which most argue raised the bar for restorations. As for the trade, I am one that says there are plenty of other B-17's that the NASM could have on display in short order that are on outdoor display. Give them one of those. Why does it need to be a combat vet. That doesn't matter to them, as they had one of the most important combat vet B-17's in the world, and did nothing with it for 60 years. They are not a museum about combat, but about history and science. Give them the one from Barksdale, or the F model on out door display. I don't mean to come off as bashing but they want SSB because the work that was done by the guys in Dover is top notch, and they can put it on display as is. That being said, if it does go there, it will be in excellent hands. I just think this is a great time to get another B-17 in from the cold, and in Dayton have 3 B-17's that all tell different parts of the air war.
I would tend to have to agree with mustangdriver on this, especially the last line... but it is good to see active 'action' taking place to ensure all these historic 17's are placed under care somewhere.
Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:06 am
mustangdriver wrote:Give them the one from Barksdale ... (let) Dayton have 3 B-17's that all tell different parts of the air war.
Absolutely right. The Barksdale B-17, with some prep, could be placed at Hazy as is, just like the P-61 or P-38. I realize the weather has taken its toll, but at least it could be viewed until there was a spot in the restoration queue. And I know you guys are just as worried about the Barksdale B-24 and B-29 ...
So, enough grumbling ... what can we do to influence this outcome? Letters, petition, personal visit ... what can we do beyond grumble on WIX?
Ken
Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:27 pm
Unfortunately, I have a feeling the Barksdale B-17 is in pretty rough shape (corrosion?) and not up to Smithsonian standards for display. If they weren't willing to take on the Swoose restoration, I doubt they'd be willing to do a ground up effort on the Barksdale bird...