Do you think this was a bad idea?
Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:01 pm
Sure has me raising an eyebrow. Looks really dangerous for the guys in the Dragon. I'm guessing they're not snatching the glider or are they? 
Douglas B-23 aerial pick-up test over a CG-3A glider on April 28, 1943.
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Douglas B-23 aerial pick-up test over a CG-3A glider on April 28, 1943.
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:12 pm
Well, they were training to do in with C-47s! They actually did this some for medical evac!
http://www.able506.com/440th/tcarticle_ ... dron.shtml
http://www.able506.com/440th/tcarticle_ ... dron.shtml
Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:25 pm
Man, who thought up that manuever? 
necessity is the mother of invention..
Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:15 pm
...I sure wouldn't try it...but then I'm not young and immortal!
Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:49 am
Here are a couple more links that describe the glider pick-up procedure:
http://atterburybakalarairmuseum.org/serv02.htm
http://www.pointvista.com/WW2GliderPilo ... emagen.pdf
And a photo of a pick-up:
http://www.footnote.com/spotlight/4656/ ... ckup_of_a/
http://atterburybakalarairmuseum.org/serv02.htm
http://www.pointvista.com/WW2GliderPilo ... emagen.pdf
And a photo of a pick-up:
http://www.footnote.com/spotlight/4656/ ... ckup_of_a/
Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:37 am
It would work, if a reel were used. Similar to when catching a shark w/ a fishing pote, a reel is used to gradually slow the thing down. Here the glider will slowly accelerate, so the plane doesn't fall out of the sky.
Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:27 am
Just been reading about the recovery of Waco gliders in Burma by the snatch technique in a book on airborne forces.
It worked, and it was used.
It worked, and it was used.
Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:12 am
so, do you think the Fulton system was any easier? (lemme get into this parachute harness and be sucked off the ground by a C-130) The setup seems to be pretty much the same as the C-47 system, gradual tensioning of the bridle untill the piano case is ready to fly no excessive loads or shocks on the powered pickup aircraft.
Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:09 pm
The RCAF continued to practice glider "snatching", using Dakotas to pick up Wacos, in to the mid 1950s. The theory was that this enabled you to re-cycle gliders, and to pick up wounded from a landing zone. There are a few pictures around of one snatch performed as part of an airshow at Rivers Camp. I'm told that I was at that airshow, but it was just before I turned 2 so I don't really remember.
The last two Dakotas that I know of used for this, TS422 (ex 42-100882) and TS425 (ex 42-100690), actually had the glider pickup gear installed while they were with the USAAF. The were both in Europe by the end of the war, and may have been used for operational glider snatches there before going to the RAF and then the RCAF.
The last two Dakotas that I know of used for this, TS422 (ex 42-100882) and TS425 (ex 42-100690), actually had the glider pickup gear installed while they were with the USAAF. The were both in Europe by the end of the war, and may have been used for operational glider snatches there before going to the RAF and then the RCAF.
Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:32 am
That WOULD be something to see at an airshow, just wouldn't want to be paying the insurance!! In training, they said they had over 500 pick-ups with no casualties or "significant" aircraft damage.
Even having a WACO land at an airshow and a combat team charge out would be rather cool. Don't see it happening, but it would be rather cool.
In training, they said they had over 500 pick-ups with no casualties or "significant" aircraft damage.
Even having a WACO land at an airshow and a combat team charge out would be rather cool. Don't see it happening, but it would be rather cool.
B-23 glider pick up crash
Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:41 pm
My dad witnessed a fatal crash of a B-23 attempting a glider pick up at Blythe sometime after December 12, 1942 and probably after January 3, 1943. (My dad's B-17 crew was in the 2nd Air Force phase training starting with a train trip to Blythe, California on December 12, 1942 for Phase 1. The 534th Bombardment Squadron, was activated January 3, 1943, from the 18th Bombardment Squadron, 34th Bombardment Group (H), AAB, Blythe, California.)
On 02/02/43 a C-47 towing a glider exploded in air seven miles northeast Temescal Ranch in Castiac, but that is quite a ways northwest of Blythe and obviously would have not been observed from the air base.
B-23 39-28 (c/n 2714) was known to be used in glider pickup testing. I'm not sure of its fate.
Other less-likely possibilities among the 38 B-23's built:
29 (c/n 2715) redesignated UC-67 Jan 1, 1943. SOC Jun 8, 1943.
40 (c/n 2726) relegated to instructional airframe Sep 17, 1942. Further history unknown.
49 (c/n 2735) relegated to instructional airframe Nov 26, 1942. Subsequent history unknown.
53 (c/n 2739) converted to RB-23. Photo at Muroc? Yes, used as a drone controller for the Culver PQ-8 drone, conversion to UC-67?
54 (c/n 2740) redesignated UC-67. Designated as instructional airframe Aug 31, 1943. Subsequent history unknown.
On 02/02/43 a C-47 towing a glider exploded in air seven miles northeast Temescal Ranch in Castiac, but that is quite a ways northwest of Blythe and obviously would have not been observed from the air base.
B-23 39-28 (c/n 2714) was known to be used in glider pickup testing. I'm not sure of its fate.
Other less-likely possibilities among the 38 B-23's built:
29 (c/n 2715) redesignated UC-67 Jan 1, 1943. SOC Jun 8, 1943.
40 (c/n 2726) relegated to instructional airframe Sep 17, 1942. Further history unknown.
49 (c/n 2735) relegated to instructional airframe Nov 26, 1942. Subsequent history unknown.
53 (c/n 2739) converted to RB-23. Photo at Muroc? Yes, used as a drone controller for the Culver PQ-8 drone, conversion to UC-67?
54 (c/n 2740) redesignated UC-67. Designated as instructional airframe Aug 31, 1943. Subsequent history unknown.
Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:10 pm
Heads up on snatch.
http://www.pointvista.com/WW2GliderPilo ... rieval.htm
B-23 #39-28 was assigned to Wright Field and Clinton County Army Air Field the glider test and experiment base 35 miles from Wright Field. The photo in first post was made at Wright Field of the snatch of a CG-3A. I believe 39-28 was the only B-23 with a winch installed. December 1942 Col. Fred Dent flew the XCG-3 for a first time cargo glider snatch. Up until that time, only soaring gliders and a Piper Cub with prop removed had been snatched. The winch in the B-23 was a model 40 with a 4,000 lb capacity. Snatching the CG-4A required the model 80 winch and C-47 or larger tug. The first human snatch was done the first weekend of September 1943 at CCAAF.
Snatching a design weight (7,500 lb.) CG-4A, the glider would be airborne in less than 100 feet and it would be flying at the same speed as the tug (120 to 130 mph) in less than seven seconds. The G force on the glider was less than 7/10th of a G. This was done with a 225 foot long 15/16" diameter nylon tow line including the snatch loop which was stretched between two poles 12 feet tall. Normally approximately 650 feet of the 5/8" steel cable would pay out of the winch at which point the winch automatically would brake to a stop. All this in less time than a very short roller coaster ride. C-47 snatched CG-4A, CG-15A, CG-13A and British Horsa gliders.
In 1944 a B-17 was equipped with a model 180 winch. It could and did snatch CG-4A, CG-15A, CG-13A and the 26,000 lb gross weight CG-10A at net weight. One pilot who was involved in all the original glider snatch tests and the dead weight and human snatch tests eventually did over 2,500 snatches between 1943 and 1946. This system involved line stretched between two upright poles attached to the glider or human. This line was snatched with hook guided on a pole hinged down from the snatch plane. This required the snatch plane to fly at an altitude of approx. 20 to 25 feet for a short time at 120 to 130 mph minimum.
In all theaters during WWII there were over 500 CG-4A gliders snatched for recovery and reuse.
The Fulton system was devised around 1950 and involved a snatch line hauled several hundred feet vertically by a balloon and snatched by a plane with a huge V frame forward to protect propellers, etc. Check out the above site and the book, Silent Ones, as mentioned on the site.
http://www.pointvista.com/WW2GliderPilo ... rieval.htm
B-23 #39-28 was assigned to Wright Field and Clinton County Army Air Field the glider test and experiment base 35 miles from Wright Field. The photo in first post was made at Wright Field of the snatch of a CG-3A. I believe 39-28 was the only B-23 with a winch installed. December 1942 Col. Fred Dent flew the XCG-3 for a first time cargo glider snatch. Up until that time, only soaring gliders and a Piper Cub with prop removed had been snatched. The winch in the B-23 was a model 40 with a 4,000 lb capacity. Snatching the CG-4A required the model 80 winch and C-47 or larger tug. The first human snatch was done the first weekend of September 1943 at CCAAF.
Snatching a design weight (7,500 lb.) CG-4A, the glider would be airborne in less than 100 feet and it would be flying at the same speed as the tug (120 to 130 mph) in less than seven seconds. The G force on the glider was less than 7/10th of a G. This was done with a 225 foot long 15/16" diameter nylon tow line including the snatch loop which was stretched between two poles 12 feet tall. Normally approximately 650 feet of the 5/8" steel cable would pay out of the winch at which point the winch automatically would brake to a stop. All this in less time than a very short roller coaster ride. C-47 snatched CG-4A, CG-15A, CG-13A and British Horsa gliders.
In 1944 a B-17 was equipped with a model 180 winch. It could and did snatch CG-4A, CG-15A, CG-13A and the 26,000 lb gross weight CG-10A at net weight. One pilot who was involved in all the original glider snatch tests and the dead weight and human snatch tests eventually did over 2,500 snatches between 1943 and 1946. This system involved line stretched between two upright poles attached to the glider or human. This line was snatched with hook guided on a pole hinged down from the snatch plane. This required the snatch plane to fly at an altitude of approx. 20 to 25 feet for a short time at 120 to 130 mph minimum.
In all theaters during WWII there were over 500 CG-4A gliders snatched for recovery and reuse.
The Fulton system was devised around 1950 and involved a snatch line hauled several hundred feet vertically by a balloon and snatched by a plane with a huge V frame forward to protect propellers, etc. Check out the above site and the book, Silent Ones, as mentioned on the site.
Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:11 am
I don't recall exactly in which one, but there was a James Bond movie some time around the 1960s or early 70s, where there is a snatch of a person, with a B-17 using the Fulton RS.
Saludos,
Tulio
Saludos,
Tulio
Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:18 am
Friends,
Aviation Archaeology list CG-4A 42-61197, pilot: Addy, Noel D. and C-53 42-47379 of the 60th Troop Carrier Group, pilot: Hopkins, Leroy J. in a accident on 16 Dec 1942 at Blythe AAF CA. The C-53 is listed as Category 5 damage (destroy).
Maybe this is the accident that Mr. Thompson’s father saw since both the C-53 and the B-23 are similar looking Douglas designs.
Tom
Aviation Archaeology list CG-4A 42-61197, pilot: Addy, Noel D. and C-53 42-47379 of the 60th Troop Carrier Group, pilot: Hopkins, Leroy J. in a accident on 16 Dec 1942 at Blythe AAF CA. The C-53 is listed as Category 5 damage (destroy).
Maybe this is the accident that Mr. Thompson’s father saw since both the C-53 and the B-23 are similar looking Douglas designs.
Tom
Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:22 pm
I agree on the C-53 vs. B-23. The glider pilot is still living. I doubt the accident occurred during a snatch because the model 80 winch was not ready or installed in Dec.1942. The accident was likely during a normal tow.