Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:08 pm
My point on the "free-for-all" statement was that if you let any Tom, Dick and Harry out there with a grappling hook the aircraft will be just as destroyed as if you had left it there in the first place.
Sure aircraft can be recovered cheeply and simply, especially by the private sector, but it does take a knowledgeable and well equipped crew to do it. If you remember the hurricane recovered recently in Russia was ripped apart during the recovery process... it had been completely intact prior to the rather botched effort.
I simply meant that recoveries should be done in a sensible manner, and that a permit process would be a good compromise to the current situation where nothing is allowed to be even touched. Sure, I see no reason why money shouldn't be made by the salvors... that's just plain fair. However, it takes great skill to recover an aircraft from underwater, and it should be planned and executed by people with a good knowledge of such things. That's all I meant.
Cheers,
Richard
Sure aircraft can be recovered cheeply and simply, especially by the private sector, but it does take a knowledgeable and well equipped crew to do it. If you remember the hurricane recovered recently in Russia was ripped apart during the recovery process... it had been completely intact prior to the rather botched effort.
I simply meant that recoveries should be done in a sensible manner, and that a permit process would be a good compromise to the current situation where nothing is allowed to be even touched. Sure, I see no reason why money shouldn't be made by the salvors... that's just plain fair. However, it takes great skill to recover an aircraft from underwater, and it should be planned and executed by people with a good knowledge of such things. That's all I meant.
Cheers,
Richard
Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:28 pm
Absolutely, and recoveries can be quite dangerous as well.RMAllnutt wrote:...it takes great skill to recover an aircraft from underwater, and it should be planned and executed by people with a good knowledge of such things..
Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:56 pm
I assume you are talking about the F6F. If so, I stand corrected. 
But on the good side, That F6F was recovered and is being saved.
Rob
What are the parts of that story am I missing?
But on the good side, That F6F was recovered and is being saved.
Rob
What are the parts of that story am I missing?
Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:36 pm
The victor's write history as the saying goes
Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:46 pm
As a little aside to preservation.
According to the ranger at Steamtown that I talked to several years ago, a lot of the steam engines in OUR US NATIONAL PARK came from our friend to the North, Canada, as it seems most of ours were scrapped.......... back in 1979 I remember seeing rows upon rows of steam engines in a junk yard in Chicago waiting for the smelter.
When Denver cleaned-up their airport in the 80's I saw planes just pushed in a pile to be scrapped, just like pictures of the scrapping after WWII.
I say, let those with the talent and money go for it! They are taking a risk that what they salvage may not be restorable too! Museums go belly-up too and good planes have been scrapped because of it in the past.
Kenn
According to the ranger at Steamtown that I talked to several years ago, a lot of the steam engines in OUR US NATIONAL PARK came from our friend to the North, Canada, as it seems most of ours were scrapped.......... back in 1979 I remember seeing rows upon rows of steam engines in a junk yard in Chicago waiting for the smelter.
When Denver cleaned-up their airport in the 80's I saw planes just pushed in a pile to be scrapped, just like pictures of the scrapping after WWII.
I say, let those with the talent and money go for it! They are taking a risk that what they salvage may not be restorable too! Museums go belly-up too and good planes have been scrapped because of it in the past.
Kenn
Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:26 pm
Gentlemen,
If I'm reading this thread right, you're upset because you feel that anyone should be able to go claim and recover the aircraft in Lake Michigan. The Navy owned them when they went in and nothing has changed since, so why would the Navy no longer own them? Maybe you should just pull up to Walter Soplata's and claim and pick up a couple of his aircraft since he is not really doing much with them either other than letting then sit there. Seem about like the same thing to me!
Glenn
If I'm reading this thread right, you're upset because you feel that anyone should be able to go claim and recover the aircraft in Lake Michigan. The Navy owned them when they went in and nothing has changed since, so why would the Navy no longer own them? Maybe you should just pull up to Walter Soplata's and claim and pick up a couple of his aircraft since he is not really doing much with them either other than letting then sit there. Seem about like the same thing to me!
Glenn
Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:45 pm
I think we feel that those in a position to recover and restore these a/c are not allowed to under false pretenses of saving them for future generations where they are. As they sit on the lake / ocean bottoms salt, weather, zebra mussels and divers are destroying these a/c. We would like to se them recovered properly, restored properly to static and or flyable condition.
Maybe that is just how I feel, but I get the impression that others feel the same and have much stronger feeling about this then I.
I consider Government property truly the American people’s property. We are the government and what we want is to preserve the history of this country (flying and static).
Maybe that is just how I feel, but I get the impression that others feel the same and have much stronger feeling about this then I.
I consider Government property truly the American people’s property. We are the government and what we want is to preserve the history of this country (flying and static).
Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:36 am
Hi Glenn,
Thanks for posting. I think that most (if not all) of the posters on this thread want to see the aircraft recovered for preservation by someone... I don't think many of us care who, so long as they are recovered and looked after properly. I also think that most of the posters on this thread do not think it should be a free-for-all grab-what-you-can either, but done in a responsible manner. In my opinion, just as Tim said above, these aircraft do not belong to the US Navy, but to the citizens, and future citizens of the United States (those aircraft in the US anyway). These aircraft are a very important part of our shared history, and deserve to be treated as such, not left to rot away in the elements.... nor recovered recklessly either.
Cheers,
Richard
Thanks for posting. I think that most (if not all) of the posters on this thread want to see the aircraft recovered for preservation by someone... I don't think many of us care who, so long as they are recovered and looked after properly. I also think that most of the posters on this thread do not think it should be a free-for-all grab-what-you-can either, but done in a responsible manner. In my opinion, just as Tim said above, these aircraft do not belong to the US Navy, but to the citizens, and future citizens of the United States (those aircraft in the US anyway). These aircraft are a very important part of our shared history, and deserve to be treated as such, not left to rot away in the elements.... nor recovered recklessly either.
Cheers,
Richard
Sat Apr 09, 2005 4:40 am
RMAllnutt wrote:Sure aircraft can be recovered cheeply and simply, especially by the private sector, but it does take a knowledgeable and well equipped crew to do it. If you remember the hurricane recovered recently in Russia was ripped apart during the recovery process... it had been completely intact prior to the rather botched effort.
Richard
If you are talking about the Red Star Hurricane that statement is totaly incorrect. The recovery was professional in every way done by guys who have recovered dozens of aircraft. The tail broke off as the tubes were corroded and too weak to take the lift, despite straps being attached to the appropriate lifting points, the only other option was a sled underneath, but since the aircraft was nose down -tail up it was not possible to place one without some lifting anyway. The tubes would have had to be replaced in restoration in any case, even to static. The wings and foward fuse are in remarkable condition as is the engine. Hardly a 'botched' recovery and a darn site more profesional than something like the Mars from the US lake or the Fw200 from Norway.
regards
Dave