Sat May 02, 2009 12:45 pm
Starboard side Carrie B IV, Boy, is it a lot of little tweaking just to move a waist gun, check gun, add a door and a hatch, add rudder trim actuator, flip the prop blades (and yes, I dropped in the Right-starboard Norden in) popped a bunch of rivets!
Sat May 02, 2009 12:57 pm
Oh man! Thank you so much. That is sweet. You are talented for sure man.
Sat May 02, 2009 1:21 pm
Here is a close-up of the new nose.
I am starting in on "Cut-away" view B-17G, eeks! I think I may have bit off a big one on that. Trying to figure out what a "Properly equipped" B-17 G looks like.....which of the current fleet is most accurate for interior paint, equipment and such. I am seeing vast differences between the birds out there!!
I am starting in on "Cut-away" view B-17G, eeks! I think I may have bit off a big one on that. Trying to figure out what a "Properly equipped" B-17 G looks like.....which of the current fleet is most accurate for interior paint, equipment and such. I am seeing vast differences between the birds out there!!
Sat May 02, 2009 6:11 pm
The practical reasons for NMF:
1. Cheaper
2. Less Drag = faster, longer range
1. Cheaper
2. Less Drag = faster, longer range
Sat May 02, 2009 6:20 pm
Reason 3....got tired of arguing about just what color it was supposed to be! 
(didn't like that OD green that weathered to a pink color)
(didn't like that OD green that weathered to a pink color)
Sat May 02, 2009 6:35 pm
On the flip side, less fun for us model builders, who just LOVE arguing about color accuracy, and hate trying to replicate bare metal finishes! 
SN
SN
Sat May 02, 2009 9:45 pm
drgondog wrote:The practical reasons for NMF:
1. Cheaper
2. Less Drag = faster, longer range
3. Less Weight= see #2
Sat May 02, 2009 10:01 pm
Do you guys know anything about the aircraft in that first photo? Is that a G with no chin turret or an F? Any way to track it down?
Sun May 03, 2009 12:01 am
Definately an F. Earlier style nose glass, off-center ADF "football" antenna, early style pitot tubes, and F configured "cheek" windows. The number on the now could be the last for digits of the serial, but that's just a guess.
SN
SN
Sun May 03, 2009 10:18 am
Hi Mustangdriver,
It is a Douglas, Long Beach built B-17F-50-DL, serial number 42-3371 in typical 2nd Air Force markings of the last 4 of the serial number on the nose, it would probably have the last three of the serial number in big numbers under the tail radio call number with a two letter field code above radio call number, the white engine cowling squadron markings is again a typical 2 AF marking.
Its IARC from Freeman & Osborne is: Del Denver 1/6/43; Moses Lake 16/7/43; 4000 BU Patterson 23/7/43; 222 BU Ardmore 20/11/43; A F-10 Brazil (Mapping) 8/6/44; 332 BU Ardmore 1/8/44; 581 BU Adams 18/9/44; Recl Com 15/11/45.
What F-10 means I don’t know for the photo version of the B-17 was F-9 but Patterson Field was the main photo mapping training base in the U.S.
AviationArcheology.com data base has two accidents reports for 42-3371:
16 Jan 1944 Cat. 4 accident (Take Off Accident with resulting Ground Loop) at Drew Field when it was assigned to the 593BS/396BG at Drew Field. I think this is a typo in AviationArchology data base became it does not match the IARC and a Cat. 4 damage is usually a write off.
12 Set 1945 Cat. 4 accident (pilot, Killed due to a Taxiing Accident caused by Weather) at Adams Field, AR when it was assigned to the 555BU at Dallas, TX. Both the 555 BU & 581 BU are Air Transport Command ferrying units and by the late date this accident looks like it happen when it was being ferried to a RFC field for storage.
The typical “stage” crew photo with the B-3 jackets for that "Air Force" look, was probably taken a Ardmore before it went to Brazil.
Tom
It is a Douglas, Long Beach built B-17F-50-DL, serial number 42-3371 in typical 2nd Air Force markings of the last 4 of the serial number on the nose, it would probably have the last three of the serial number in big numbers under the tail radio call number with a two letter field code above radio call number, the white engine cowling squadron markings is again a typical 2 AF marking.
Its IARC from Freeman & Osborne is: Del Denver 1/6/43; Moses Lake 16/7/43; 4000 BU Patterson 23/7/43; 222 BU Ardmore 20/11/43; A F-10 Brazil (Mapping) 8/6/44; 332 BU Ardmore 1/8/44; 581 BU Adams 18/9/44; Recl Com 15/11/45.
What F-10 means I don’t know for the photo version of the B-17 was F-9 but Patterson Field was the main photo mapping training base in the U.S.
AviationArcheology.com data base has two accidents reports for 42-3371:
16 Jan 1944 Cat. 4 accident (Take Off Accident with resulting Ground Loop) at Drew Field when it was assigned to the 593BS/396BG at Drew Field. I think this is a typo in AviationArchology data base became it does not match the IARC and a Cat. 4 damage is usually a write off.
12 Set 1945 Cat. 4 accident (pilot, Killed due to a Taxiing Accident caused by Weather) at Adams Field, AR when it was assigned to the 555BU at Dallas, TX. Both the 555 BU & 581 BU are Air Transport Command ferrying units and by the late date this accident looks like it happen when it was being ferried to a RFC field for storage.
The typical “stage” crew photo with the B-3 jackets for that "Air Force" look, was probably taken a Ardmore before it went to Brazil.
Tom
Sun May 03, 2009 5:43 pm
Interesting stuff. So this was more than likely a training aircraft.
Sun May 03, 2009 6:01 pm
Looks like 401st trained in Ft George Wright, Spokane WA, come crew came from Ephrata WA, some from Rapid City SD, then Brooksville FL, and Orlando, then Geiger Field WA, then Great Falls MT, then Scott Field before final deployment via Goose Bay, Meeks Field (Iceland), Prestwick Scotland.
Still trying to figure out just where that pic may have been taken.
Still trying to figure out just where that pic may have been taken.
Sun May 03, 2009 6:28 pm
Holedigger wrote:Looks like 401st trained in Ft George Wright, Spokane WA, come crew came from Ephrata WA, some from Rapid City SD, then Brooksville FL, and Orlando, then Geiger Field WA, then Great Falls MT, then Scott Field before final deployment via Goose Bay, Meeks Field (Iceland), Prestwick Scotland.
Still trying to figure out just where that pic may have been taken.
That photo was likely taken at Ardmore AAF. My reasoning is this: Chris's friend's grandfather was likely a member of a replacement crew rather than the original cadre of the 401st. Notice that the combat photos he had are all of much later B-17s. The orginal crews would have long-since been through with their required missions. Ardmore was one of the 2AF B-17 Replacement Crew Training stations, and the crew likely had their photo taken in front of one of the sixty or so Forts on the Ardmore apron when they were close to "graduating". Tom has pretty well ironed out the disposition of this particular airplane and Ardmore is the most likely fit cronologically.
Great photos and glad you're helping a friend fill in the blanks!
Scott
Sun May 03, 2009 6:47 pm
Just great stuff to learn here. He is really excited. His family know little about WWII aviation and almost nothing of what their family member did, but are eager to learn. I finished my movie for them, and am going to see if I can post it here when I get home from work tonight if you guys would want to see it.
Sun May 03, 2009 7:23 pm
Post away!
Ask your friend if he has any further records of his granddad's CONUS training. If so we should be able to confirm if that "F" shot was in Ardmore or not. I've walked the apron there numerous times, and I'd like to think I have trod the same concrete as the guys in that picture. History comes alive for me when I see photos like that one.......
Scott
Ask your friend if he has any further records of his granddad's CONUS training. If so we should be able to confirm if that "F" shot was in Ardmore or not. I've walked the apron there numerous times, and I'd like to think I have trod the same concrete as the guys in that picture. History comes alive for me when I see photos like that one.......
Scott