Can you identify this?

[Tulio]

.. Posting deleted.

Last edited by Tulio on Sat May 07, 2005 2:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

[FAH 619]

DTS:

No. We can't at this time. But we are doing some serious digging! In the meantime ... we found a similar item. Machine gun-camera/ buff 619

[RickH]

Not sure about the camera but the Guatemalan Ryan STM-1 s were also modified to carry two overwing mounted 7mm Colt machine guns with streamlined fairings over them. The wings had an extra rib added to beef up the structure under the gun mount.

[FAH 619]

RichH:

Tks for the info/data. Do you have pictures of these planes? Tks

[RickH]

I do, but unfortunately they are in two books I have. They are "The Ryan Guidebook by Dorr B. Carpenter and Ryan Sport Trainer" by the same author. I don't have access to a flat scanner. They also have extensive pictures of the Dutch STM's that escaped to Australia . Most of the survivors are back in the U.S..

[FAH 619]

RickH:

Tks again for the info/data. Couple of questions for now that we hope you are able to answer:

1. Do the book(s) specifically designate Ryans STMs as the "model type" exported to Guatemala, Honduras, Netherlands & Australia?

2. Do the author makes a reference to the above "machine gun cameras" being installed on export versions and what brand/type were they?

Tks

[RickH]

Sure, STM-1s (Sport Trainer Military Model One) were 150 HP Menasco (C4S)powered. Small percentage were equipped with machine gun. Mexico got 6 in 1937. Only one has surfaced it was in Illinois when the book was written (C. 1990. original Ryan Guidebook C. 1975 ) Honduras got the next order1938, 3 aircraft. They were supposed to be armed single seat fighters but were delivered with brackets and synchronizer only. Neither has survived. Guatemala received 12 in 1938 in two shipments. First six were trainers with provisions for arming. Second six were armed with enough guns and fittings to arm first batch. Seven survived and were in the U.S. and flying in the 70s. Bolivia ordered some thru Lend Lease but only received a civilian STA by 1940. 1 STA went to Brazil. Ecuador got one STM-1. Nothing on the camera "gun". HTH

[airnutz]

Hey Rick, Are any of these flying veteran "gunned" ST restored displaying
their weaponry? That would make a very interesting "Golden Age"
warbird!

Last edited by airnutz on Sun May 08, 2005 4:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

[RickH]

It would be cool. A true example of the light fighter. Don't know of any flying that way and I think most are done up as STAs. The only military Ryan's out there are PT-21 & 22, that I know of.

[FAH 619]

RickH:
Tks again for your info/data. There is still another version of this poss "machine gun camera" on the www described as similar to a " Lewis Machine gun but loaded with film only".

The picture above illustrates a Japanese Vintage WW II Konica 4.5. The picture included is the type of "artifact" that we are trying to ID.

Photo Ryan via Ed Cassegnares

[Jungle Bob]

The gun camera in the photo is a 16mm ( we think) Japanese unit which was the standard fixed gun training mount and also is adaptable to a flexible gunnery trainer unit.

There are photos of these employed as fixed over wing units on Zeros and in the waist positions of Japanese Bombers. A quick look up of the standard Mikesh reference books on Japanese aircraft equipment will bring these up.

[RickH]

The item in question could certainly be a Japanese camera. But it bears an uncanny resemblance to a Browning .30 caliber. The Chinese received STM-1s as trainers so it could be one of those. Either in Chinese hands or Japanese capture. The Japanese did capture at least 1 Dutch, Java STM but it is the later Model 3 with the external longeron. My bet is that it is Chinese with American gun camera attached.

[RickH]

I just found reference to a Fairchild Type CG-16 machine gun camera, unfortunately no pictures yet. All of their large WWII aerial cameras were K models.

[tom d. friedman]

it is most definetely japanese. i have 1, but not as complete. it used 8mm film, crank the winder, aim & shoot. they were used for training, aerial recon, by a rear seat photographer & operated manually. also as a gun camera for recording aerial recon, air to air victories, minus the grip handles, & manual crank. they were used in the nick night fighter, & dinah recon planes, electrically wired & all adapted for automatic use. mine still works, & is manual like the 1 shown. regards, tom

[tom d. friedman]

i have all the specifics on the camera if anybody wants them!! regards, tom