Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:12 pm
Mudge wrote:Why all the "HOO-HA" about Fat Albert and JATO. OK...so there ain't no more. And why would any business want tool up for such a limited market?
Mudge the logical
Yeah...yeah...I know...INCOMING
Showbiz! Chuckie Cheese! I can put the Navy in touch with the Bartollotta Brothers here in Milwaukee who do the fireworks and I bet they have some great pyro to take over for the bottles.
Didn't realize that Albert was the last user of the JATO inventory...
Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:07 pm
Airman Deuce...Your insight is impeccable. Now that would be funnier if it weren't so close to the truth.
Mudge the amused
Mudge the amused
Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:14 pm
I thought they were used in some ski equipped C-130 operations?
Mudge the curmudgeon rears his head...it looks cool dammit! Isn't that enough!?
some people....
(just funnin ya old man! )
Mudge the curmudgeon rears his head...it looks cool dammit! Isn't that enough!?
some people....
(just funnin ya old man! )
Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:16 pm
NY ANG, 190th AW still had bottles this summer as Rich K. mentioned.
Think they may have a need for them where they have to go.
Here are 2 different aircraft with them. Photos taken in July
Think they may have a need for them where they have to go.
Here are 2 different aircraft with them. Photos taken in July
Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:27 pm
Bill:
Saw those bottles at Thunder and Genesseo.... The orange ones are INERT......
Zane and I were chatting some about it...... The NY ANG told me that they used JATO on the ski C-130s. So we concluded that they must be saving a stockpile of them for REAL missions (not demos), so who knows how many they may still have squirrelled away somewhere..........
The C-130 with skis has a take off slide of 10,000 to 15,000 feet according to the pilot in "soft" snow......
Interesting thing about them is they are one serial number apart and one has 4 blade props and the other has 7 (?) blade props........ Must be some upgrades going on....
Mark H
Saw those bottles at Thunder and Genesseo.... The orange ones are INERT......
Zane and I were chatting some about it...... The NY ANG told me that they used JATO on the ski C-130s. So we concluded that they must be saving a stockpile of them for REAL missions (not demos), so who knows how many they may still have squirrelled away somewhere..........
The C-130 with skis has a take off slide of 10,000 to 15,000 feet according to the pilot in "soft" snow......
Interesting thing about them is they are one serial number apart and one has 4 blade props and the other has 7 (?) blade props........ Must be some upgrades going on....
Mark H
Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:32 pm
Airman Deuce...Your insight is impeccable. Now that would be funnier if it weren't so close to the truth.
Mudge the amused
So now were crying
Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:22 am
P51Mstg wrote:Bill:
Interesting thing about them is they are one serial number apart and one has 4 blade props and the other has 7 (?) blade props........ Must be some upgrades going on....
Mark H
Some info about the 8-blade prop upgrade...
http://antarcticsun.usap.gov/features/c ... fm?id=1520
Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:32 am
I spoke to the pilot of Fat Albert at the El Centro 2008 show, as he was talking about this very subject. He said that while there was a limited supply of the JATO bottles left, the main reason they were to be dropped from the show was that they intend to replace the aircraft with a later model that has more powerful engines.
As he explained it to the older woman next to me who had asked about it, "The new plane will have so much more power, it will be like having an extra one of the engines we use now bolted to the plane."
He said that the new aircraft wouldn't be set up for the bottles anyway, so they had planned out the final places the current aircraft would demo the remaining stock.
As he explained it to the older woman next to me who had asked about it, "The new plane will have so much more power, it will be like having an extra one of the engines we use now bolted to the plane."
He said that the new aircraft wouldn't be set up for the bottles anyway, so they had planned out the final places the current aircraft would demo the remaining stock.
Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:55 am
RandolphB wrote:I spoke to the pilot of Fat Albert at the El Centro 2008 show, as he was talking about this very subject. He said that while there was a limited supply of the JATO bottles left, the main reason they were to be dropped from the show was that they intend to replace the aircraft with a later model that has more powerful engines.
As he explained it to the older woman next to me who had asked about it, "The new plane will have so much more power, it will be like having an extra one of the engines we use now bolted to the plane."
He said that the new aircraft wouldn't be set up for the bottles anyway, so they had planned out the final places the current aircraft would demo the remaining stock.
C-130J...or in the Navy/Marine's case...KC-130J
Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:14 am
i loved the jato thing too. the solution is easy..... to keep the excitement the blues need to set up a contract with the estes model rocket company to have 5 trillion little engines made, get about 50 miles worth of duct tape to fasten them, & a flame thrower with enough fuel to light the engines. the blues should be good for about 20 more years with that scenario!!!! i knew blowing up all those models as a kid would pay off later!!
Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:11 am
Scott:
Interesting 8 bladed (OK, I didn't count them) prop article....... On this subject it said.....
"Another project to help get the C-130s off the ground involves replacing the current stock of jet-assisted takeoff (JATO) rockets. Strapped to the back of the plane to provide extra lift during takeoff, the JATO bottles in use today date back to the 1950s, according to Alston.
“We’re starting to run out of them,” he said. “We got some funding, and we’re trying to get more funding from Congress, to get the supply to where we need it, to continue to do the mission, especially as we look into the possibility of going more and more into the deep field.”"
So JATO isn't really going away, they are trying to get more money for more bottles.
Mark H
Interesting 8 bladed (OK, I didn't count them) prop article....... On this subject it said.....
"Another project to help get the C-130s off the ground involves replacing the current stock of jet-assisted takeoff (JATO) rockets. Strapped to the back of the plane to provide extra lift during takeoff, the JATO bottles in use today date back to the 1950s, according to Alston.
“We’re starting to run out of them,” he said. “We got some funding, and we’re trying to get more funding from Congress, to get the supply to where we need it, to continue to do the mission, especially as we look into the possibility of going more and more into the deep field.”"
So JATO isn't really going away, they are trying to get more money for more bottles.
Mark H
Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:39 am
Some worthless facts that, with a dime, won't get you a cup of coffee downtown.
Credible Sport was a different animal and didn't use the stock bottles seen on early Herks or today's LC-130 or Fat Albert. (The surviving Credible Sport airframe is with the Museum of Aviation at Robins AFB, GA.) I think most folks know that these Herks were not used at Desert One - the plan had switched to helicopters and sadly didn't go as planned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxfpGPWtoOY
There haven't been factory JATO provisions on (slick) Herks since the E-model. The H's started around 1974 so it has been awhile. The scuttlebutt was always that the added power from the upgrade from -7 to -15 engines negated the need for JATO. As mentioned, if they get new LC-130J's, JATO may become unnecessary, even for ski ops.
The Navy E-2 uses similar Allison T56 engines and has been using the many-bladed props for some time. The USAF seems to be taking too long to adopt the new props to give the old girl an added boost. The LC-130H ski birds obviously benefit from the added boost of both new props and JATO due their unique mission.
Credible Sport was a different animal and didn't use the stock bottles seen on early Herks or today's LC-130 or Fat Albert. (The surviving Credible Sport airframe is with the Museum of Aviation at Robins AFB, GA.) I think most folks know that these Herks were not used at Desert One - the plan had switched to helicopters and sadly didn't go as planned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxfpGPWtoOY
There haven't been factory JATO provisions on (slick) Herks since the E-model. The H's started around 1974 so it has been awhile. The scuttlebutt was always that the added power from the upgrade from -7 to -15 engines negated the need for JATO. As mentioned, if they get new LC-130J's, JATO may become unnecessary, even for ski ops.
The Navy E-2 uses similar Allison T56 engines and has been using the many-bladed props for some time. The USAF seems to be taking too long to adopt the new props to give the old girl an added boost. The LC-130H ski birds obviously benefit from the added boost of both new props and JATO due their unique mission.
Last edited by Ken on Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:51 am
that 8 blade prop configuration is cool!! i've read that it's very quite. i'm gonna bring some veggies up to it & make a huge batch of cole slaw!!
Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:03 pm
Now the NYANG a/c, I would pay to see take off in the snow.
Mudge the selectively mudgy
Mudge the selectively mudgy
Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:48 am
tom d. friedman wrote:i loved the jato thing too. the solution is easy..... to keep the excitement the blues need to set up a contract with the estes model rocket company to have 5 trillion little engines made, get about 50 miles worth of duct tape to fasten them, & a flame thrower with enough fuel to light the engines. the blues should be good for about 20 more years with that scenario!!!! i knew blowing up all those models as a kid would pay off later!!
Estes...?!?
Move away from the Kiddie Table and feel welcome to come play with the Adults..http://www.libertylaunchsystems.com/Vid ... ldrs26.wmv
"LDRS- Large and Dangerous Rocketships 26"