Help bring a WWII Fighter to Geneseo!

[AHancock51]

Hi all fellow warplane enthusiasts,

I am not one who likes to impose on others, and I usually don't try to push things to hard, however, I figured I would post some information about my biggest project at the 1941 Historical Aircraft Group. I call it the '41 Fighter Fund, and I started it back in August of '08 and have been quietly but steadily raising money to purchase a World War Two fighter plane (such as a P-51 Mustang or P-40 Warhawk) for the museum. Recently, I have begun a new push for the project, seeing as after a year, I now know exactly what I'm doing (or trying to do) I will keep you informed to this project if you wish, and if anyone has any ideas or questions, please feel free to post!

Here's a site about the fund:
http://1941hag.org/fighterfund.html

*Soon to come, promotional video! I have it completed, but need to upload it to youtube

- Austin Hancock
1941 HAG Member/Volunteer

[Django]

I think the P-40 makes more sense to the group.

What is "1941" about a P-51 especially in Tuskeegee colors?

[Warbird Kid]

Id say a P-51A or P-40B/C would be the most appropriate of course. Not saying it would be very easy though. Either way i believe a Allison engined aircraft would be much easier to operate and maintain for the group out there. If you still wanted to get a D model 51 later Id say go for it. There's always D model's around, new-build or original.

As far as a P-51A, I believe the late Gerry Beck had produced some 11 odd new build P-51As that haven't seen the light of day yet. But Im sure someone here has more info on that.

[kzollitsch]

I think the P-40 makes more sense to the group.

What is "1941" about a P-51 especially in Tuskeegee colors?

What is 1941 about a C-119, AN-2, L-21 or L-16? The name doesn't make much sense to me either but I know there are those that would like to keep it. Personally, as a member, if I had a vote I'd change it to something like the "Historical Aircraft Museum at Geneseo."

[Warbird Kid]

I think the P-40 makes more sense to the group.

What is "1941" about a P-51 especially in Tuskeegee colors?

What is 1941 about a C-119, AN-2, L-21 or L-16? The name doesn't make much sense to me either but I know there are those that would like to keep it. Personally, as a member, if I had a vote I'd change it to something like the "Historical Aircraft Museum at Geneseo."

Id say go back to the roots and call it "The National Warplane Museum" again. I mean, the name is no longer in use, correct? But 1941 is a iconic year and a good part of a name for a museum. I believe that given the name, they could collect and fly more aircraft with appropriate schemes from that year. I mean, look at the aircraft already that could be represented in those schemes:

A-20
B-23
C-47 (Tallichet)
C-45
L-3
T-6
Staggerwing

Of course every aircraft they have isn't going to fall into this criteria as it shouldn't. Variety is never a bad thing.

[Nathan]

I can see there is an opinion on this.

I like the name.

[AHancock51]

I'm shooting for a P-51 B/C/ or D model or a P-40E and up model (but I'll gladly take any others if the price is right ) . The name for our museum has been called into question quite a bit lately, and it is being looked into (that's all I'll tell for now) But yeah, there are plenty of options for the fund. Anyone got some fund raising ideas? I know a lot of ya are from museums too, what works for you guys? Thanks!

- Austin Hancock

[Warbird Kid]

I'm shooting for a P-51 B/C/ or D model or a P-40E and up model (but I'll gladly take any others if the price is right ) . The name for our museum has been called into question quite a bit lately, and it is being looked into (that's all I'll tell for now) But yeah, there are plenty of options for the fund. Anyone got some fund raising ideas? I know a lot of ya are from museums too, what works for you guys? Thanks!

- Austin Hancock

Have a good local artist who sympathizes with the museum's endeavors produce a piece that would be auctioned off at some function held at the museum.

[Jerry O'Neill]

I don't know the final figures, but EAA raised a bit of money back in the late 1980's for their Eagle Hangar fund by including an Eagle Hangar Leather A-2 flight jacket when, I seem to remember, a $1,000 donation was made.
Jerry

[warbird1]

While your goals and motivation are admirable, why don't you guys concentrate on the planes that you do have? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you guys have a really tough time raising the money to buy the B-23 at only $ 50,000? Also, isn't the B-23 still at Midland because you guys can't raise the $16,000 needed to transport it to New York?

Let's see, you guys have invested about $56,000 so far on the B-23 - it's not a flyer, and it's still in Midland, due to lack of funds and/or personnel. Now, you want to raise somewhere between 1.4 Million and 2.5 Million to buy a flyable P-51 or P-40? How in the world are you going to do that? Unless you are on the 40 year donation schedule, I don't see that happening. By that time, P-51's and P-40's will be over 10 to 15 Million each. Instead of spending the 1.4 Million on a fighter, why don't you guys put 1 Million into the B-23 and make her a flyer? It could carry many, many more passengers for a "flight experience" and you could help support the plane. A Mustang or Warhawk can only carry one passenger at a time.

In addition, I would much rather you guys put the 1.4 Million into the A-20 to make her airworthy. There are ZERO A-20's airworthy at the moment. If you got the A-20 airworthy, you guys could claim worldwide exclusivity for the type! Though I haven't seen the A-20 in person, from the shots I've seen from the previous work at Beaver Falls, it looks like the plane is mostly finished with major restoration, except for the detail work like systems installations, etc. Surely you could make that plane airworthy for substantially less than 1 Million? I thought that both engines were already overhauled and ready to go also. Would it not make more sense to put any money generated into the A-20 which would have a very high chance of completion and could put HAG/1941 on the map with the world's only airworthy A-20?

I'm not trying to discourage you from accomplishing this great goal, but why would I, as a potential investor, have any confidence that you guys could raise the money in my lifetime? Is there something I'm missing here? Is HAG/1941 in some multi-millionaire's will? Does New York have a "heritage fund or lottery fund" to support aviation museums? Have you guys gotten a matching commitment from somewhere? Lottsa questions for this seemingly lofty goal.

-Warbird 1, the level-headed, pragmatic realist

[kzollitsch]

In addition, I would much rather you guys put the 1.4 Million into the A-20 to make her airworthy. There are ZERO A-20's airworthy at the moment. If you got the A-20 airworthy, you guys could claim worldwide exclusivity for the type! Though I haven't seen the A-20 in person, from the shots I've seen from the previous work at Beaver Falls, it looks like the plane is mostly finished with major restoration, except for the detail work like systems installations, etc. Surely you could make that plane airworthy for substantially less than 1 Million? I thought that both engines were already overhauled and ready to go also. Would it not make more sense to put any money generated into the A-20 which would have a very high chance of completion and could put HAG/1941 on the map with the world's only airworthy A-20?

The A-20 does not belong to HAG so I don't believe they have much say as to when and what type of work can be completed on the aircraft. It is still part of the Tallichet estate.

[Nathan]

While your goals and motivation are admirable, why don't you guys concentrate on the planes that you do have? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you guys have a really tough time raising the money to buy the B-23 at only $ 50,000? Also, isn't the B-23 still at Midland because you guys can't raise the $16,000 needed to transport it to New York?

Let's see, you guys have invested about $56,000 so far on the B-23 - it's not a flyer, and it's still in Midland, due to lack of funds and/or personnel. Now, you want to raise somewhere between 1.4 Million and 2.5 Million to buy a flyable P-51 or P-40? How in the world are you going to do that? Unless you are on the 40 year donation schedule, I don't see that happening. By that time, P-51's and P-40's will be over 10 to 15 Million each. Instead of spending the 1.4 Million on a fighter, why don't you guys put 1 Million into the B-23 and make her a flyer? It could carry many, many more passengers for a "flight experience" and you could help support the plane. A Mustang or Warhawk can only carry one passenger at a time.

In addition, I would much rather you guys put the 1.4 Million into the A-20 to make her airworthy. There are ZERO A-20's airworthy at the moment. If you got the A-20 airworthy, you guys could claim worldwide exclusivity for the type! Though I haven't seen the A-20 in person, from the shots I've seen from the previous work at Beaver Falls, it looks like the plane is mostly finished with major restoration, except for the detail work like systems installations, etc. Surely you could make that plane airworthy for substantially less than 1 Million? I thought that both engines were already overhauled and ready to go also. Would it not make more sense to put any money generated into the A-20 which would have a very high chance of completion and could put HAG/1941 on the map with the world's only airworthy A-20?

I'm not trying to discourage you from accomplishing this great goal, but why would I, as a potential investor, have any confidence that you guys could raise the money in my lifetime? Is there something I'm missing here? Is HAG/1941 in some multi-millionaire's will? Does New York have a "heritage fund or lottery fund" to support aviation museums? Have you guys gotten a matching commitment from somewhere? Lottsa questions for this seemingly lofty goal.

-Warbird 1, the level-headed, pragmatic realist

HAG owns the B-23 now. All they need is a little funding to finish getting it back to Geneseo.

[warbird1]

The A-20 does not belong to HAG so I don't believe they have much say as to when and what type of work can be completed on the aircraft. It is still part of the Tallichet estate.

O.K., thanks for that info. I was not aware of that. So, then it's even more reason for them to use that fighter fund money to make an offer on the A-20 and secure it for the museum.

If they don't want to buy the A-20 from Tallichet's estate then why not put the funds into restoring the B-23? I sincerely doubt it would take nearly as much money as buying an airworthy P-51 or P-40.

What I don't understand is that with economic concerns being a HUGE factor for HAG/1941, why don't they be wiser and more efficient with their money? Trying to buy a multi-million dollar fighter when they can't even afford to transport a static airplane home makes zero sense to me.

What am I missing here?

[mustangdriver]

I worked on that A-20, and it was getting close to being airworthy. The engines were over hauled, and the props were back from the shop. Systems were being put in place to get it flying.

[RyanShort1]

Fighters are good for rich guys, but for groups I suspect that a bomber or transport type is more likely to keep more people interested and keep the organization healthy - you know - if they think they'll get to ride in it and help out at shows, etc...

Ryan