We Need Your Input for Warbird Registry 2.0
Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:06 pm
We Need Your Input for Warbird Registry 2.0
Hello everyone,
As we have become more aware of a need to update certain elements of WIX/WRG, one area that we are finding more and more in need of attention is the Warbird Registry (http://www.warbirdregistry.org). Scott did a great job of working (tirelessly toiling more like) on the static HTML version that is currently up there. The only problem with that is the fact that Scott is the sole editor for 100% of the content of an ever-growing project that requires the most time-consuming process of not only creating new entries, but also updating existing entries. It’s truly a full-time endeavor and Scott certainly has his hands full with work and a growing home life these days. As he and I have discussed, there is a huge backlog of picture submissions and certainly status updates in the email – and it will just continue to grow.
So as a result, Registry 2.0 needs to be built. I say “Registry” because both Scott and I have wanted to build a Vintage/Classic Registry with a similar framework – in fact, there are several registry ideas we are interested in.
So, we are interested in some input on this from the loyal WIX population as to what needs to be included and how it should work. Scott and I both agree that this needs to be a database-driven project that has the ability for registered users to add or update information or photos for a specific aircraft or even add a new aircraft entry and a select number of editor/admins can approve the submissions with a few clicks… not requiring programming or HTML knowledge.
We’d like to start discussion here of what YOU would like to see in “Registry 2.0” – this includes features, attributes, or even examples of other web-directories that you like… so please, let’s hear (read) them!
Additionally, we are interested in hearing from those of you who may have some pretty good knowledge and skill in “clean sheet” web application development with PHP / mySQL, ASP, or even ColdFusion (or any other dev languages you think may work) who may be interested in working on this project. Though we have looked at open-source apps like Drupal, MediaWiki and Joomla – we have found the “out of the box” solutions not meeting the kind of site we want… and the effort to develop work arounds may not be worth the “free” nature of those platforms. At the same time, we always appreciate volunteer help, but we realize that everyone needs to make a living and sometimes the volunteer work has to slip to the side… and as a result, we are developing something of a budget to actually fund the development to a certain extent. Because we want this to happen relatively soon, we are willing to pay or work out a plan to fund this with a developer. Email me at keough.ryan@gmail.com if you wish to discuss this… recommendations of developers are also appreciated as well, as we’ll most likely CrowdSource the project once the feature set is worked out.
So again, let’s hear YOUR suggestions for Registry 2.0!
Hello everyone,
As we have become more aware of a need to update certain elements of WIX/WRG, one area that we are finding more and more in need of attention is the Warbird Registry (http://www.warbirdregistry.org). Scott did a great job of working (tirelessly toiling more like) on the static HTML version that is currently up there. The only problem with that is the fact that Scott is the sole editor for 100% of the content of an ever-growing project that requires the most time-consuming process of not only creating new entries, but also updating existing entries. It’s truly a full-time endeavor and Scott certainly has his hands full with work and a growing home life these days. As he and I have discussed, there is a huge backlog of picture submissions and certainly status updates in the email – and it will just continue to grow.
So as a result, Registry 2.0 needs to be built. I say “Registry” because both Scott and I have wanted to build a Vintage/Classic Registry with a similar framework – in fact, there are several registry ideas we are interested in.
So, we are interested in some input on this from the loyal WIX population as to what needs to be included and how it should work. Scott and I both agree that this needs to be a database-driven project that has the ability for registered users to add or update information or photos for a specific aircraft or even add a new aircraft entry and a select number of editor/admins can approve the submissions with a few clicks… not requiring programming or HTML knowledge.
We’d like to start discussion here of what YOU would like to see in “Registry 2.0” – this includes features, attributes, or even examples of other web-directories that you like… so please, let’s hear (read) them!
Additionally, we are interested in hearing from those of you who may have some pretty good knowledge and skill in “clean sheet” web application development with PHP / mySQL, ASP, or even ColdFusion (or any other dev languages you think may work) who may be interested in working on this project. Though we have looked at open-source apps like Drupal, MediaWiki and Joomla – we have found the “out of the box” solutions not meeting the kind of site we want… and the effort to develop work arounds may not be worth the “free” nature of those platforms. At the same time, we always appreciate volunteer help, but we realize that everyone needs to make a living and sometimes the volunteer work has to slip to the side… and as a result, we are developing something of a budget to actually fund the development to a certain extent. Because we want this to happen relatively soon, we are willing to pay or work out a plan to fund this with a developer. Email me at keough.ryan@gmail.com if you wish to discuss this… recommendations of developers are also appreciated as well, as we’ll most likely CrowdSource the project once the feature set is worked out.
So again, let’s hear YOUR suggestions for Registry 2.0!
Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:10 pm
Maybe the ability for forum members to add entries that can be cleared by administration. Lock it down to check that the person has X post count here. Maybe 500 or 1000 messages? Sure that'll remove almost everyone from the ability to add entries, but it'll keep the spammers out. Or maybe just have the ability to request to be a database maintainer and have people added on an as needed basis. IMHO, the idea should be to add a few new people in who can help maintain the database, not open the floodgates so just anyone can add whatever. That'll kill the quality of the database if that occurred.
I'd like to see the entries have the ability to be a full profile or even a blog of the aircraft including photo gallery, history, contact information and whatever else needed for completeness sake with all entries timestamped as to note entry date and how current the information is.
Not sure if the intent is for flyable aircraft only, but I attempted to get my F-84F fuselage entered into the registry and was outright ignored when I sent in the information. Sure, there is infinately more interest in flyable aircraft, but I think all states of aircraft are important to document, even the garage simpit projects for completeness sake.
I'd like to see the entries have the ability to be a full profile or even a blog of the aircraft including photo gallery, history, contact information and whatever else needed for completeness sake with all entries timestamped as to note entry date and how current the information is.
Not sure if the intent is for flyable aircraft only, but I attempted to get my F-84F fuselage entered into the registry and was outright ignored when I sent in the information. Sure, there is infinately more interest in flyable aircraft, but I think all states of aircraft are important to document, even the garage simpit projects for completeness sake.
Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:52 pm
Ryan, Scott,
I think the idea of opening the database up for editing by others is a good idea...for the most part. There is the inherit danger of bad data being added. The approval process is a good start to making an attempt at controlling the data.
As for an example of an online, editable database, check out the www.airport-data.com site. Ken is the owner and he has done a great job in making the site work well. One can add data, comment on others data and he has some sort of approval method. I like the search options that he has built in.
I don't know if he built it from scratch or if he used some sort of existing software.
I think the idea of opening the database up for editing by others is a good idea...for the most part. There is the inherit danger of bad data being added. The approval process is a good start to making an attempt at controlling the data.
As for an example of an online, editable database, check out the www.airport-data.com site. Ken is the owner and he has done a great job in making the site work well. One can add data, comment on others data and he has some sort of approval method. I like the search options that he has built in.
I don't know if he built it from scratch or if he used some sort of existing software.
Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:54 pm
BHawthorne wrote:...but I attempted to get my F-84F fuselage entered into the registry and was outright ignored when I sent in the information.
Good ideas on all accounts, your input is appreciated. I can assure you that your entry was not ignored... it's just part of a tremendous backlog to a highly spammed email account. If you look through the entries, you'll notice that a huge number of them are indeed static examples... take a look at the B-17 database for example... a good number are gate guardians and the like. The idea is to document any and all aircraft that are out there in some way... at least 25% of the original in some way that is.
Thanks,
Ryan
Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:22 pm
Ryan Keough wrote:BHawthorne wrote:...but I attempted to get my F-84F fuselage entered into the registry and was outright ignored when I sent in the information.
Good ideas on all accounts, your input is appreciated. I can assure you that your entry was not ignored... it's just part of a tremendous backlog to a highly spammed email account. If you look through the entries, you'll notice that a huge number of them are indeed static examples... take a look at the B-17 database for example... a good number are gate guardians and the like. The idea is to document any and all aircraft that are out there in some way... at least 25% of the original in some way that is.
Thanks,
Ryan
Being able to upload data and photos direct would be cool, but like has been mentioned the need for review is necessary to eleminate spam. I have given up on submitting aircraft to the Registry as well.
Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:22 pm
Technically, I think there isn't real problem to have a registry editable by everyone (or every registred member in the forum) with a control before the inputs appear on the related page.
The time saved between building all the page manually (in html) and only validate the information will be a valuable improvement.
As working in computer-science (and more specificaly in "knowledge managemend") mysel, if I could, i would suggest to simply build a custom web application (with PHP or ASP) with the basics features needed in a first time, but with a open design, allowing to increase the features "step by step" in the future
I suppose, that one of the important point is the retrieval of the existing information from the registry to include them in the new one, that's probably possible automaticcaly.
If I can help, don't hesitate to contact me.
The time saved between building all the page manually (in html) and only validate the information will be a valuable improvement.
As working in computer-science (and more specificaly in "knowledge managemend") mysel, if I could, i would suggest to simply build a custom web application (with PHP or ASP) with the basics features needed in a first time, but with a open design, allowing to increase the features "step by step" in the future
I suppose, that one of the important point is the retrieval of the existing information from the registry to include them in the new one, that's probably possible automaticcaly.
If I can help, don't hesitate to contact me.
Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:45 pm
Ryan, if you don't think it's working well this way, you could upload your full name, social security number, credit card numbers, date of birth, and maybe your pet's name to the site. That would make it a lot easier to help you 
Seriously, don't open this up to everyone or you'll regret it
Have you considered having a small number of people (in addition to or besides admins) who could have access, and a gold star or whatever under their av's, who are allowed to update at will? Maybe you could count each update as a post for them or something silly, to make up for loss of posting time on our beloved WIX?
Seriously, don't open this up to everyone or you'll regret it
Have you considered having a small number of people (in addition to or besides admins) who could have access, and a gold star or whatever under their av's, who are allowed to update at will? Maybe you could count each update as a post for them or something silly, to make up for loss of posting time on our beloved WIX?
Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:50 pm
Contact infor for the aircraft where applicable is and would be a bonus! updated pictures would be great too! Would it be possible to post alerts as to what is needed in way of aircraft updates etc so we know how to help wuickly?
Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:09 pm
Well maybe certin fans of a aircraft type would "sponsor" if you could say a type of airplane and be responsible for its information. For the last 2 years off and on, I have been working on a Registry for the N3N for WIX. I am trying to account for all built. My inital WIX registry will be of the Museum, known projects and flying aircraft. But eventually my goal will be to account for all built. Been pretty fun sofar.
Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:11 pm
N3Njeff wrote:Well maybe certin fans of a aircraft type would "sponsor" if you could say a type of airplane and be responsible for its information. For the last 2 years off and on, I have been working on a Registry for the N3N for WIX. I am trying to account for all built. My inital WIX registry will be of the Museum, known projects and flying aircraft. But eventually my goal will be to account for all built. Been pretty fun sofar.
If that sponsor only had access to that airplane to change info. There would be one less thing for scott to worry about updating and it would be maintained for the love of the type.
Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:37 pm
How about something like this? :
http://belmilac.wetpaint.com/
It's a database for all Belgian AF aircraft. Works great!
http://belmilac.wetpaint.com/
It's a database for all Belgian AF aircraft. Works great!
Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:38 pm
Maybe start charging users like $2.00 a month. Help ease the work load on you admins. So you can put more time into the site.
Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:41 pm
One thing I want to clarify is the fact that it's not going to be "open" to just anyone... there will be a certain vetting process no matter what. This was one of the reasons why we decided against something that worked like Wikipedia... we wanted to build something that has a certain administrative "buffer" before anything goes public... and the only way to do so is to open it up to people that make an official application to become a content author.
There are sites like DMOZ.org (the Open Directory Project) that behave like this... and it seems to work for them. They also have people that dedicate to a certain topic (like Jeff mentioned with the N3Ns) and assume something of an expert "owner" status over it.
Again, it's not going to be, in ANY WAY, open to anonymous submissions... there will always be a login no matter what.
In the case of contact information... we need to be careful here. The FAA registration data provides the public address information for any given N-Number in the US... but anything beyond that (phone numbers, email addresses, contact people, etc) that are not publicly available on company websites or the like will not be allowed unless sent or requested from the actual owner. For example, we will post a link to Fighter Factory's website from any aircraft in their collection, and if there is a public contact person or email (like the airshow booking coordinator) we may publish it... but I WILL NOT post Mr. Yagens cell number or personal email that I have in my own contact list. For many owners, privacy is a concern and we don't want to compromise that.
I think it would also be important that we do as much cross-referencing as possible... like links to N-Number or s/n queries on Airliners.net or airport-data.com (or any sites that have info or photos on the plane)... as well as a link to the FAA information query as well. That seems like a logical way to do it.
Also, I want to make sure we have some way of watermarking the photos submitted with the contributors name credit, the URL to the registry, and some sort of way of placing the date that the photo was taken on the photo as well. In many cases, we see some warbirds going through several paint schemes over a lifetime and we want to make sure that people know that Texas Raiders is painted as an OD plane now, not the white-red-blue that it wore for a time in its early days.
Keep the ideas coming!
There are sites like DMOZ.org (the Open Directory Project) that behave like this... and it seems to work for them. They also have people that dedicate to a certain topic (like Jeff mentioned with the N3Ns) and assume something of an expert "owner" status over it.
Again, it's not going to be, in ANY WAY, open to anonymous submissions... there will always be a login no matter what.
In the case of contact information... we need to be careful here. The FAA registration data provides the public address information for any given N-Number in the US... but anything beyond that (phone numbers, email addresses, contact people, etc) that are not publicly available on company websites or the like will not be allowed unless sent or requested from the actual owner. For example, we will post a link to Fighter Factory's website from any aircraft in their collection, and if there is a public contact person or email (like the airshow booking coordinator) we may publish it... but I WILL NOT post Mr. Yagens cell number or personal email that I have in my own contact list. For many owners, privacy is a concern and we don't want to compromise that.
I think it would also be important that we do as much cross-referencing as possible... like links to N-Number or s/n queries on Airliners.net or airport-data.com (or any sites that have info or photos on the plane)... as well as a link to the FAA information query as well. That seems like a logical way to do it.
Also, I want to make sure we have some way of watermarking the photos submitted with the contributors name credit, the URL to the registry, and some sort of way of placing the date that the photo was taken on the photo as well. In many cases, we see some warbirds going through several paint schemes over a lifetime and we want to make sure that people know that Texas Raiders is painted as an OD plane now, not the white-red-blue that it wore for a time in its early days.
Keep the ideas coming!
Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:44 pm
I think you need to have one person or small team to have final responsibility for data to maintain the integrity, accuracy and ultimately the reputation of the site. To make the workload tractible, I believe N3NJeff's idea of establishing qualified leads based on their interests is excellent. For example, keeping up with just the T-6/SNJ/Harvard community would be a substantial hobby committment for one or two people.
As far as data inclusion, I think the existing database gives a very good summary already. I can think of only two improvements. The first is link to a good locater site such as Mike Henninger's Aerovisuals. The second idea is to have an index for each type based on thumbnails of current and past paint schemes. Trying to find a Texan seen at an airshow in the Registry can be quite a daunting task if your picture doesn't feature a readily visible registration number.
As far as data inclusion, I think the existing database gives a very good summary already. I can think of only two improvements. The first is link to a good locater site such as Mike Henninger's Aerovisuals. The second idea is to have an index for each type based on thumbnails of current and past paint schemes. Trying to find a Texan seen at an airshow in the Registry can be quite a daunting task if your picture doesn't feature a readily visible registration number.
Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:44 pm
N3Njeff wrote:N3Njeff wrote:Well maybe certin fans of a aircraft type would "sponsor" if you could say a type of airplane and be responsible for its information. For the last 2 years off and on, I have been working on a Registry for the N3N for WIX. I am trying to account for all built. My inital WIX registry will be of the Museum, known projects and flying aircraft. But eventually my goal will be to account for all built. Been pretty fun sofar.
If that sponsor only had access to that airplane to change info. There would be one less thing for scott to worry about updating and it would be maintained for the love of the type.
The problem is see is it ultimately becomes the same problem just at a smaller level though when you have only 1 person over parts of the data. Sure I know people would want to specialize in areas of specific aircraft, but that data also needs to be editable and updatable by all people who have moderator access to the database. That way if someone goes AWOL or falls of the face of the planet that data still remains current.
I'd also shy away from emailing data for entry in favor of a webpage form to enter data and updates. That way the data is not filtered through a single person with a jammed up email box (like is apparently currently occuring).