Remanants of the Red Baron

Shay · **Posted:** Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:48 pm

More specifically Manfred von Richthofen's aircraft. After crashing behind the Allies' lines, I would imagine the Baron's aircraft would have been torn apart for souvienirs by the troops. Have these peices turned up and what is the most significant piece to ever surface over the years?

On a 2nd note I've noticed in a lot pictures of downed WW2 German aircraft where the Swastika have been cut out and have wondered what has happened to them? Sitting in people's attics? I believe there is one from a ME262 on display at the NMUSAF(they might even have a piece of the Baron's last airct too IIRC). Just courious.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

warbird1 · **Joined:** Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:25 pm **Posts:** 2760

I've read stories that troops pillaged and scavenged the aircraft like vultures, after it was downed. I've heard of remnants scattered all over the world. I know there are a few pieces scattered in some of the air museums in Australia, but I can't remember which one specifically, has the most. I'm sure JDK will be along soon to give the info.

BTW, I have Richthofen's signature, but it's not a piece of the aircraft.

From this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manfred_von_Richthofen

"Relics

The engine of Richthofen's DR.I was donated to the Imperial War Museum in London, where it is still on display. The control column (joystick) of Richthofen's aircraft can be seen at the Australian War Memorial, in Canberra. The Royal Canadian Military Institute, in Toronto, holds two parts of the aircraft: its seat and a side panel signed by the pilots of Brown's squadron."

JDK · **Posted:** Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:01 pm

Hi Shay,

The IWM in the UK has the engine. There are authenticated collections of parts from the aircraft in the Australian War Memorial and the RAAF Museum, and a collection including a diorama of the crash at the Omaka Aviation Heritage Centre in Omaka NZ, based on the material collected by Peter Jackson.

He actually crashed in front of Australian army troops, and as you speculated the aircraft was pretty much souvenired to pieces, before being recovered. There are photos of the denuded airframe on the web, including AWM shots. Each of the above museums has a bit on the websites, IIRC.

There are a lot of pieces of fabric purported to come from the aircraft. If you put them all together they'd probably cover a Zeppelin Stakken, as well as covering the gamut of reds. IIRC, his red was quite a bright 'pillar box' colour, but most pieces have faded to a burgundy hue.

HTH.

JDK · **Posted:** Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:04 pm

Some good stuff here:

http://www.omaka.org.nz/exhibits.htm#Richthofen

http://www.awm.gov.au/exhibitions/1918/ ... rbaron.asp

http://www.awm.gov.au/blog/2008/02/06/w ... ed-baron-2

APG85 · **Posted:** Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:44 pm

The late author, PJ Carisella, spent years of his life researching and writing about Richthofen. He had an enormous collection of items including bits of the plane. Unfortunately when he died, the collection was auctioned off. His book, Who Killed The Red Baron is great reading...

P51Mstg · **Joined:** Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:36 am **Posts:** 1202

I can second the "Who Killed the Red Baron" as a good read. I probably read that when I was 12 in the early 1970's great book....

Whats probably more interesting than pieces of his plane, is what happened to the reminants of him...... His body (or pieces of it; IIRC skull may have been moved without the body) has been burried a few times......

Also what happened to the silver goblets 1 for each kill that he had made as trophies. I think they ended up in the former Soviet Union somewhere. Heck they may have been sold off on the Soviet equialent of FLEABAY.......

Mark H

warbirdcrew · **Posted:** Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:35 am

IIRC, I believe the piece of fabric with the fuselage insignia, the iron cross, is in the Canadian War Museum in Ottawa.

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:53 am

der baron's flying boots have been in a private collection for decades with provinence.

Mgawa · **Posted:** Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:01 am

Many pieces are appear today on e-bay but it is wonder is it authentic or not. Some original material is stored in two museums, as noted by JDK. Regard to some eye witness it is painted in dark red color and this is original color, not painted over the original streaky camouflage. It look like the mix of the red and black and black particles are not complete mixed with red color.

Cheers

JDK · **Posted:** Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:12 am

Old (i.e. not current) AWM Display:

Old RAAF Museum display:

These were already uploaded. I have photos of the current displays in the Omaka, RAAF and AWM collections. I'll dig them out if there's interest (and when I have time!).

APG85 · **Posted:** Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:53 am

JDK wrote:

I have photos of the current displays in the Omaka, RAAF and AWM collections. I'll dig them out if there's interest (and when I have time!).

Yes, I'd like to see them.
I believe Carisella's research determined that the aircraft was in the process of being repainted at the time of it's shoot-down and that's why there are variations in the red paint on the surviving samples of fabric...

Russell Smith · **Posted:** Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:34 am

The Red Baron's Last Flight by Norman Franks and Alan Bennet is a very good and insightful read as well.

Here's the fuselage cross that hangs in the Omaka Heritage Center in NZ. Notice the Balkankreutz style that had recently been painted over the earlier Eisernenkreuz. You can see the tips of the earlier style cross where the paint has work away. The order to switch to the straight-sided Balkankreutz had only been issued the month prior to MvR's death.

AirJimL2 · **Posted:** Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:22 am

The Royal Canadian Military Insititute in Toronto has the seat and some fabric:

http://www.rcmi.org/index.php?action=display&cat=16

Jim

Shay · **Posted:** Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:31 pm

Great Stuff!!

Any Ideas on te location of the Baron's MG 08 machine guns?

They're shown in the footage here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rhekUpW2iY

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

DaveM2 · **Posted:** Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:11 pm

Several of his victory goblets are on display at Omaka alongside the cross shown above. There is a cabinet full of stuff.

Dave

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