Tiger Moth Found in Canadian Lake...

[Warbirdnerd]

Efforts to recover a floatplane that sank in Azure Lake last summer have led to the discovery of another plane that sank in the lake, this one in 1947.

“We got the tip from Kelly and Ellen Ferguson,” said Gary McAninch of GP Recover Services. “They said there was another plane that went down by Indian Point near the Clearwater River end of the lake.”

Deteriorating weather meant Gary and his wife, Penny McAninch, pulled their camp and barge out of Azure Lake early last fall and returned to their home near 70 Mile House. They had located the homebuilt Private Explorer floatplane that had sunk in the lake last summer in 500 feet of water with one of their remote operating vehicles but had been unable to raise it.

Intrigued by the reports of a second plane in the lake from the Fergusons, who are both longtime Upper Clearwater residents, Gary returned in October to do a quick search.

The plane in question had landed in winter to pick up an ill trapper, John Hogue. They had tried to take off but the ice was too thin and it damaged the floats as they broke through. They tried to keep it afloat by tying small logs to the plane but their efforts proved inadequate and the plane sank.

As they flew in last October, Gary McAninch asked his floatplane pilot where he would land if he were going to pick someone up at Indian Point.

The pilot pointed out a probable location and, when they returned to search it with sonar, they found what appeared to be the echo of a sunken plane in about 200 feet of water on the first pass.

The salvagers then sent down a remote operating vehicle to take a look at what they had found.

They were extremely excited when the plane’s wing first loomed into view, he said.

Small logs still tied to the plane indicated it was the one they were looking for. A close up of the engine identified it as a Tiger Moth, a biplane that was used as a trainer in World War II (Gary knew it because he had built a model of one when a youngster).

Careful work with the ROV revealed the airplane’s call sign along the side of the fuselage.

Having the call sign allowed them to later trace the aircraft’s history. It was built by De Havilland Canada in 1942 and sent to the U.S. to be used as a trainer. It then went to the RAF, although they are not sure if it was sent to Great Britain or remained in Canada.

After the war it was sold to Kamloops Flying Club. War surplus Tiger Moths could be bought at that time for about $500, they said.

Its pilot when it went down was Harry Bray, who went on to become one of the first pilots with Canadian Pacific Airways.

Most Tiger Moths had an open cockpit, with the pilot sitting in the rear seat. The one in Azure Lake, however, was fitted with a canopy for colder weather. The canopy is still closed on the bottom of the lake, meaning maps and other personal items could still be preserved from 62 years ago. Gary said he looks forward to recovering whatever’s left and, if possible, returning the items to the pilot’s family.

The couple plans to return to Azure Lake next year to salvage the plane that sank last summer plus the one that went down in 1947. At present they are putting together the necessary permits and paperwork from B.C. Parks and other agencies.

A friend has expressed interest in filming a documentary of their efforts plus at least one museum would like to add the Tiger Moth to its airplane collection.

Found it here:
http://www.bclocalnews.com/bc_thompson_ ... 04622.html

[Holedigger]

Very cool! (so to speak!) Should be quite a time capsule. Now we have to wait till next summer!?! I am NOT good at waiting!

[BLR]

Nice to see someone is finally going to get it.

DHC1438
USAAF 42-1099
RAF FE235
RCAF as 1235
CF-CII Sank through ice taxying Azure Lake BC 2.1.47

There's another one in BC

DHC1240
RCAF as 5937
CF-CHP Sank through ice after landing Trout Lake BC 14.1.47

[Baldeagle]

So it was a PT-24 at one point?




-

[BLR]

There's a bit more info on Bill Walkers site at:
http://www.ody.ca/~bwalker/RCAF_1200_1249_detailed.html

"Ordered by USAAF as PT-24 42-1099; then to Lend-Lease as RAF FE235. Used at No. 35 Elementary Flying Training School at Neepawa, Manitoba. Had 2309:15 airframe time when struck off. To civil register as CF-CII. Sank through the ice of Azure Lake, BC, while taxiing, on 2 January 1947."

and here's a bit of info on the second Tiger Moth.

"first date: 27 November 1941 - taken on strength by No. 2 Training Command at Winnipeg

Shipped to No. 8 Repair Depot at Winnipeg for assembly. With No. 14 Elementary Flying Training School in Portage la Prairie, Manitoba. Category C3 damage at Portage at 11:10 on 22(?) April 1942. Assigned to M&C Aviation in Prince Albert, Saskatchewan for overhaul on 25 August 1943. diverted to Mid-West Aircraft in Winnipeg on 17 November 1943, completed by 14 April 1944. To No. 2 Training Command when completed. Pending disposal from 7 August 1944. To No. 2 Air Command on 1 December 1944, still pending disposal. Stored at No. 26 Elementary Flying Training School at Neepawa, Manitoba, where it was noted with 1789:50 total time, 153:05 since overhaul. Transferred from War Assets Corporation to Royal Canadian Flying Club Association. To civil register as CF-CHP, registered to Aero Club of Vancouver on 4 September 1945. Sank through ice after landing on Trout Lake, BC on 14 January 1947."

[Nathan]

I thought wrecks in Canada are not allowed to be recovered?

[RMAllnutt]

I thought wrecks in Canada are not allowed to be recovered?

It depends on the province/territory, and the federal government regulations. You can always apply to recover an aircraft though. Sometimes you get permission, and sometimes you don't.

Cheers,
Richard

[Tim L]

I thought wrecks in Canada are not allowed to be recovered?

It depends on the province/territory, and the federal government regulations. You can always apply to recover an aircraft though. Sometimes you get permission, and sometimes you don't.

Cheers,
Richard

Would the fact that both were civilian owned at the time of loss have any affect on whether or not they can be recovered?

Tim

[Tom H]

Hi Tim

Does not matter if civil or military.

Process works something like this (by memory excuse if I make an error)

1) First you must apply to the Province (like a State) involved, each has slightly different regs.
Some, such as the Yukon are very tough, others not bad.
2) You must apply to Heritage Canada for permission
3) If it is going to leave Canada it can get more challenging if it is a type that is considered historically important and can be blocked from leaving the country by Heritage Canada and Canada customs.

All that said generally as long as you do your homework and follow the laws it is not that difficult. The ones that typically get into trouble are the ones that jump in without checking into things and then get a mess.

My 2 bits

Oh yes...all Canadian Tiger Moths had Canopies as well as some other differences from the British version, the old its the same but not quite.

Tom

[davem]

Hi Tim

Does not matter if civil or military.

Process works something like this (by memory excuse if I make an error)

1) First you must apply to the Province (like a State) involved, each has slightly different regs.
Some, such as the Yukon are very tough, others not bad.
2) You must apply to Heritage Canada for permission
3) If it is going to leave Canada it can get more challenging if it is a type that is considered historically important and can be blocked from leaving the country by Heritage Canada and Canada customs.

All that said generally as long as you do your homework and follow the laws it is not that difficult. The ones that typically get into trouble are the ones that jump in without checking into things and then get a mess.

My 2 bits

Oh yes...all Canadian Tiger Moths had Canopies as well as some other differences from the British version, the old its the same but not quite.

Tom

One more step, all underwater wrecks in Canada must be salvaged through the Receiver of Wrecks (Coast Guard) - not complex, just really a formality that establishes ownership before, during and after recovery.

D

[BLR]

One more step, all underwater wrecks in Canada must be salvaged through the Receiver of Wrecks (Coast Guard) - not complex, just really a formality that establishes ownership before, during and after recovery.

D

The Receiver of Wrecks is no longer the Canadian Coast Guard, it's now under Transport Canada, Navigable Waters Protection Program.

Also in some cases aircraft wrecks are on native owned land and you will have to deal with them to remove anything from their property.

[davem]

One more step, all underwater wrecks in Canada must be salvaged through the Receiver of Wrecks (Coast Guard) - not complex, just really a formality that establishes ownership before, during and after recovery.

D

The Receiver of Wrecks is no longer the Canadian Coast Guard, it's now under Transport Canada, Navigable Waters Protection Program.

Also in some cases aircraft wrecks are on native owned land and you will have to deal with them to remove anything from their property.

According to the Government website:

"Who is the Receiver of wrecks? The Receiver of Wreck is an officer of the Canadian Coast Guard appointed by Order-in-Council under Part 7 - Canada Shipping Act, 2001, to act as a custodian of "wreck" in the absence of the rightful owner."

I have done several underwater recoveries, always working with a Coast Guard Officer. However, Transport is the governing body and Coast Guard is under Fisheries and Oceans so there is some crossover between Ministries.

The website address:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/quebec/nwp-receiver-1467.htm

[daveymac82c]

There's a Moth in Trout Lake, BC?

Wow... That's such a small lake on the east side of Vancouver, if it's the Trout Lake I'm thinking of.

I google mapped it just to be sure, but if it's the Trout Lake that google finds, then I'm wondering what a Vancouver Flight Club would be doing way up there.

I assume the Moth's been pulled out of Trout Lake by now. But, it'll be interesting to search the archives and local history.

Cheers,

David

[BLR]

According to the Government website:

"Who is the Receiver of wrecks? The Receiver of Wreck is an officer of the Canadian Coast Guard appointed by Order-in-Council under Part 7 - Canada Shipping Act, 2001, to act as a custodian of "wreck" in the absence of the rightful owner."

I have done several underwater recoveries, always working with a Coast Guard Officer. However, Transport is the governing body and Coast Guard is under Fisheries and Oceans so there is some crossover between Ministries.

The website address:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/quebec/nwp-receiver-1467.htm

see PM

[Warhawk]

I was reading this thread earlier this afternoon and as I was searching around tonight for some information for the turretless B-25 thread I came across this news item in the Yukon News by accident.

http://www.yukon-news.com/news/13051/

I was thinking they should have dropped by WIX first.