EMERGENCY AD, T-6 ATTACH ANGLES

[HarvardIV]

Yes Bela:

So what do you advocate? To constantly use paint stripper, and reprimer the parts every 200 hrs? Or is there a better way than that?

[snj-5]

I advocate following the AD to the letter, or requesting
and gaining approval of an alternate means of compliance.

Item 8 of the AD says to paint them, and specifically states
alodine alone is not acceptable.

We all have our opinions on the merits (or lack-thereof) of the AD
(and we're entitled to those opinions), but once an AD is issued
against any aircraft I own/fly/restore, personally, I'll follow it
to the letter.

I'm actually thinking of contacting my FSDO to see if it would
be acceptable for me to DyePen my attach angles while they're
off of the airplane (since I'm doing a ground-up rebuild).
Of course 200 hours into operation, (unless the AD is revised),
I'll be faced with the same situation as currently flying T-6s.


Bela P. Havasreti

[Jack Cook]

I'm hearing noises that the FAA is going to amend the AD to require an eddy current inspection since it's more detailed. T-6s already inspected will have to be redone and will not be grandfathered in.

[HarvardIV]

I advocate following the AD to the letter, or requesting
and gaining approval of an alternate means of compliance.

Hi Bela:

I advocate that too, but what I was saying what would you have suggested as a better AD they could've implemented? keep in mind what Matt said, they are not always right.

Just like Matt said, he even goes to his FSDO, and discusses it with them when he sees a problem with some regulation.

[jgrifft6]

They are in the process of getting eddy current approved for use instead of Zyglo as we speak. It won't be required, simply another option. A guy out here in Tulsa is pushing it and should be done soon. The FAA originally didnt approve it b/c there was concern on whether or not it could be done as effectively as Zyglo since (from what I hear) it is harder to do properly.
Our T-6 is all done and crack free as are all the other birds on the field so far inspected (5 so far with 3 more to go). Took her up for a beautiful flight today with two other T-6s for a flyover for the local Air Museum at a Ballpark. Total time investment for the inspection was right around 50-60hrs as we had a heck of a time stripping paint w/ just little wooden sticks and toothbrushes.
Jason

[Aircraft Mech Paul]

apply a corrosion protectant coating paint (Alodine alone is not acceptable."

The AD is overkill, all you need is to alodine, and then you can take off the attach angle fairing, and check frequently for corrosion.

Chris,

With all respects. If the FAA issues an Emergency AD note, or even a "standard" level AD. It MUST be followed exactly to the letter. Unless you wish to take it up with the FAA and obtain an AMOC letter. Which is an "Alternate Means of Compliance". And even THAT, MUST be followed to the letter. When the FAA speaks, especially on any AD...you had best listen very very carefully.

I mean no disrespect to you Chris, but you should not take so cavalier an attitude with something like this, especially when many of the folks here are Warbird T-6 owners/pilots/mechaincs themselves.

Respectfully,

Paul

[Aircraft Mech Paul]

I'm hearing noises that the FAA is going to amend the AD to require an eddy current inspection since it's more detailed. T-6s already inspected will have to be redone and will not be grandfathered in.

Jack,

could you please help me out here and point me to a resource that is pertaining to the Eddy Current Inspection of this item ? Eddy Current, while a very good inspection technique, it highly dependant on the operators training, equipment, test standards, and most imprtantly, his or her experiance in it. I would like to hear more.

Paul

[Jack Cook]

Paul,
Check your PM.

[jgrifft6]

Just got it in the mail today, NDT Inspect-Air just got Eddy current approved through the Milwaulkee FSDO. Their website is www.ndtinspect-air.com

Flew the T-6 again today for a group of British pilot that trained in Miami, OK during WWII. They made quite a trip to come back to their old training grounds and had some amazing stories and photos to share.
Jason

[jgrifft6]

RER,
I'm sorry to say that I'm not sure if they were RN/FAA pilots. I thought they were RAF but I'm not positive. I didn't get any copies but one guy had some awesome photos of Halifaxes lined up on the ramps with gliders in tow for the Rhine River Crossing. Wish I would've packed a scanner in the Six!
Jason

[HarvardIV]

Hi Paul:

HarvardIV wrote:
Quote:
apply a corrosion protectant coating paint (Alodine alone is not acceptable."


The AD is overkill, all you need is to alodine, and then you can take off the attach angle fairing, and check frequently for corrosion.


Chris,

With all respects. If the FAA issues an Emergency AD note, or even a "standard" level AD. It MUST be followed exactly to the letter. Unless you wish to take it up with the FAA and obtain an AMOC letter. Which is an "Alternate Means of Compliance". And even THAT, MUST be followed to the letter. When the FAA speaks, especially on any AD...you had best listen very very carefully.

I mean no disrespect to you Chris, but you should not take so cavalier an attitude with something like this, especially when many of the folks here are Warbird T-6 owners/pilots/mechaincs themselves.

Respectfully,

You might want to read what I wrote again, because my point was about the FAA going overboard in creating their ADs. I didn't say anything about disregarding those ADs.

[John Sausedo]

Thanks Matt.

I hesitate to even say this, but perhaps the "for-hire mock-air-combat"
type operations should be held to a higher standard (?) than the rest
of the privately owned fleet (I'm not just talking about T-6s, but
all the others... T-34 , SF-260, Extras, whatever). I realize the
logistics of trying to enforce something like this wouldn't be easy
(i.e., which airplanes used to be used for hire and are now in
private hands, etc.).

I'm just thinking out loud here, and asking for input/thoughts, not
trying to yell out my point of view. I can be as civil as the next
guy, while agreeing to disagree on this point or that.

The last thing I'd want to do is hurt the "fighter pilot for a day"
industry (I'm a customer for crying out loud! I flew with WA
in Kissimmee a few years ago). I just wonder if there's something
we can learn fom history... The military limited the G loads on these
aircraft towards the end of their service life. As someone pointed
out, not all of the fleet (more like a small percentage of same) has
been completely gone through (i.e., restored from the ground up).

Bela P. Havasreti

Bela,

I do agree with you to a point on this. But, the true "Air Combat" providers are not T-6 operators. During my time at WA (2001-2003), maybe less than 1% of our flights were of the BFM catagory.

I do agree that operators doing prolonged aerobatics (90% of my flights in the T-6 were aerobatic), that a recurring inspection be done. I think the 200 hour interval is a bit too much, but not a lot I can do on that one.

The 200 hour interval the SAAF was a no brainer, as the cost was picked up by the SA gov't. 200 hours for civilian use is a little overkill. I think 500 hours or a set period of time (like every 12 months or so) would be a good compromise until more data is obtained. This would cover the guys who fly a lot and who fly a little (like the 40 hour a year operator).

[Broken-Wrench]

You have to have good eyes for dye penetrant. somtimes you have to really look for the cracks. Eddie current is nice but the metal has to be the same thickness all the way thru or at least on set we used. I realy liked xray. There is no way a crack getting awayusing that!

Is there a permanent fix for this - like replacing the attach angles outright?

[snj-5]

I re-read the AD, and replacing the attach angles with new
ones doesn't retire the AD.

That being said, the AD is an "Emergency" one. Only time will
tell (based upon the cumulative inspection results of the
airworthy fleet) if the AD will be amended/revised and if so,
to what extent.

For what it's worth, the horizontal stab rear spar attach fitting
AD gets retired if you use the specified new parts.

Bela P. Havasreti