Do Not give your' trade or skills for free.

[ZRX61]

people who give pedicures and manicures are "nail technicians"

garbage collectors are "sanitation engineers" in some cities

i'd rather be a mechanic

I saw something within the past 2 or 3 days where a cleaner was refered to as a "surface engineer"

Yesterday I was at BestBuy waiting in line to pay for some dvds & the gal on the checkout called out "I can take the next guest". While she was ringing up the purchasesI asked for a 6am alarm call & a breakfast of kippers, toast with rindless marmalade & Earl Grey tea. I then explained it is customary in my country to give *guests* gifts & thanked her for the free DVDs.. at which point my 12yo daughter told me to "stop taking the piss"

[muddyboots]

doctors used to be "chancre mechanics"

[Richard Woods]

So you haven't come across anything complicated YET?!?!!!!
Well you as a volunteer have either been given all the grunt work, cleaning panels, putting in a cotter pin here and a cotter pin
over there.
Or the only thing you have had the chance to voluteer to maintain was a "Piper Cub".
Every job I do is complex and challenging, peoples lives are at risk or stake because of the quality of work I do on a daily basis...
Secondary is my A&P license and the liability tied to it.
I can now understand the mentality of a "True" volunteer, you have a care free "LA DEE DA" attitude, heck your job is not on the line.
And that is why there is a differrance between volunteers who work on static/display aircraft and ones that fly.

Mehh..

Come up with something new will you? You're beginning to sound like a stuck record.

I jumped in at the deep end. I went to go work on an Avro Shackleton. Not really a Piper Cub. Rather interestingly, it is to be returned to flight, so bang goes your theory on static, flying, and volunteers. Not much would get done were you in charge I think...

The reason I haven't come across anything complicated is because I understand how the thing works. Cables, bearings, torque tubes, hydraulics.... don't bother me. Kind of helps when you've been playing with old cars for many years. The big V12s in the Shackleton aren't that scary when you were rebuilding Jag V12s when you were 15 years old. Complex? Yes. There's a lot of it. Complicated? No. The right tools and manuals solve that one. How you can claim that every job you do is challenging is beyond me.

As I stated, so long as I get the procedural side right... I'm fine. I can read, too, which helps me find the bit in the manuals I need to use. If I really screw up, I know how to work a forum too (including quoting people..) so I can find people who'll help. Hence my question ion the maintenance forum about how to clean the thing without damaging the skins. If I was really clueless I would have used something caustic and really screwed up; but asking questions yields results.

So despite everything, I don't have a "care free la dee dah" attittude, I just have a problem with those that seem to think that they were born in the position where they're at now. People who usually think they're too high up the food chain to do the grunt work, then whinge when it's not done. A bad attitude costs in time, money and occasionally lives depending on where you work; which is why I try to maintain a good temper. But, in your case I am beginning to struggle.

Here's a little information for you... just because you're a spanner monkey with a bit of a chip on his shoulder doesn't mean you're the only person in the world whose job has the responsibility of peoples lives depending on them. So don't get all judgemental on me until you know what I do for a living. Okay?

Regards,

Ric
(Volunteer and Proud - Avro Shackleton WR963)

[k5083]

So please do not tell us how to do our job or what to charge
for our services,
If you are a doctor or laywer I don't tell you how to do your'
job or what you are going to charge me for your' services...

I think this may be your problem, you actually don't understand how any type of professional operates.

I can speak for lawyers. Clients tell us all the time what they will pay us, and are constantly demanding discounts and freebies. That goes equally for small-town solo practitioners and for the world's largest law firms.

Doctors also have their rates dictated by the payor (generally an insurance company).

Like A&Ps, doctors and lawyers are on the hook for an extended time for anything they do wrong. That really has very little to do with whether or what they charge. A doctor who volunteers at a clinic or a lawyer who serves indigent clients "pro bono" faces the same malpractice exposure as when he does paid work.

Of course you can always be inflexible on price, and be prepared to lose the business to a competitor. And it is always your right to gripe that the market won't let you charge what you feel you are worth. Not very productive though.

August

[EDowning]

ZRX61 Wrote:

I'ver met more than a few mechanics who point blank refuse to work on aircraft (or even cars etc) owned by lawyers. Which means more work for the rest of us

Since August didn't bite on this......I will. Hopefully the lawyers don't take the same attitude when these people (rightly or wrongly) get violated or sued. Kind of like the police, nobody gives a Sh$t about them, until you need one, an then when you need one, you REALLY need one. Just a thought. And before you ask, I am neither an Attorney or a Policeman.

As they say, "I am just a warbird pilot, but don't tell my mother, she thinks I'm a piano player in a whorehouse".

[k5083]

Well, obviously there is a certain logic to not working for lawyers under certain circumstances. If you think you might screw up and try to get away with it, then it might be best to avoid customers who know their rights and have the means to enforce them. That would include lawyers, but no more so than other sophisticated customers. Nonlawyer customers with a taste for lawsuits probably are the greater threat, especially if you are concerned about frivolous litigation. Most lawyers (like me) are not experienced in air-crash litigation and could not competently represent themselves in such a case, so they would have to hire an attorney like any other client anyway.

To complicate matters, lawyers who are pilots and sophisticated about aviation have a foot in each community and many would not necessarily jump at the chance to sue a mech; indeed, they would stand ready to defend one as you suggest, Eric. As far as I know, I am the only WIXLA (Wix Lawyers' Alliance) member who is not a pilot, so the others would be more qualified to speak to that.

Some lawyer-pilots, even warbird pilots, do aviation plaintiffs' work. Jim Beasley's firm apparently does some, according to its web site. The best known is Arthur Alan Wolk, one of the country's most prominent aviation product liability lawyers and winner of many verdicts on theories that I'm sure would upset some here. Some of you will recall that he used to fly an F9F-2 until he had an accident in it in 1996. He now uses his experience of that accident to help promote his business in an I-feel-your-pain way, but I have no idea whether he sued anyone after the crash. I don't know Wolk except through brief correspondence many years ago, but he has been interviewed several times about the relationship between his love for aviation and his litigation positions. These are very interesting, and his view is that a plaintiffs' lawyer who is a pilot and sophisticated about aviation will be more reasonable, better at evaluating the cases, and less inclined to bring frivolous ones. On the other hand, of course, if an air-crash case has merit, then the lawyer's aviation knowledge would help make him a formidable advocate, to say nothing of the jury credibility boost that he would get from being an F9F or P-51 jockey.

August

[ZRX61]

rebuilding Jag V12s when you were 15 years old.

You beat me by 12 months

[tinbender2]

We have had mixed experiences with lawyers.

The self-aggrandizing ambulance chasers, some with their faces plastered on billboards and city buses, are ones we avoid. They think we don't know the first thing about lawsuits, and when it is time to pay the maint bill, they try childish threats to reduce it. Most of us have 20-40 years in the biz, and have seen that BS before. They pull the same crap with their auto repair shops, but it ain't gonna fly with us.

We brief them on every detail, BEFORE maint begins, let them make decisions whenever possible, and keep them updated throughout the process. There are no surprises when they get the bill, and they can stop maint at any time. Those that keep trying their little jedi mind tricks, get storage fees added to the bill.

Large, successful law firms, with a modern flight department, have not been a problem.

[EDowning]

Tinbender2 wrote:

We brief them on every detail, BEFORE maint begins, let them make decisions whenever possible, and keep them updated throughout the process. There are no surprises when they get the bill, and they can stop maint at any time.

This sounds like a good business practice regardless of the customers occupation.