Warbird Information Exchange

Several people have written of stories told by "vets", even claiming medals, that turn out to be false or an exaggeration, or just get bent a little.
While looking at the B-17, I met a man who said he was crew on a B-17 in WWII . I don't have his name, and don't want to single him out, I mean no disrespect. He may be completely on the level, but I wonder.
I asked him a few questions and he seemed bewildered at them. This may only be a hearing problem, as he had a hearing aid. And of course memories can be different over the years.
One of the things that he said was flying to Russia to load 1000 lb bombs and refuel, then flying to Italy, "to bomb Rommel's tanks". For all you guys who know the history, was that part factual? When I asked him how long that part of mission was he seemed not to know, then said 6 hours. Does this seem right? He also talked about 8 or 10 hour missions, I think on the way to Russia.
He seemed a little young for this role, although an older man. He had a flight jacket with him, I didn't see it exactly but it looked like a new one with an fresh painting on the back.
I would guess this man is the real deal, but I just wonder about some of it. At any rate he was there supporting the plane.

_________________
Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Perhaps he participated in the Russia shuttle missions? They ended up in Italy, although I don't know that they flew combat missions from there before heading back to England.

_________________
.
.
Sure, Charles Lindbergh flew the plane... but Tom Rutledge built the engine!

Visit Django Studios online or Facebook!

I know what you mean Bill, sometimes the stories we hear can leave us doing some head scratching, or seem a bit "tall."

In this case it sounds like he was describing the "Triangle" bombing missions. Basically a triangle would be flown between bases in the Medd., England, and Russia. With a target being bombed on each leg.

As far as bombing "Rommel's tanks" that was probably just a generalization after the Germans were pushed out of Africa to Italy.

_________________
Share your story: Rutgers Oral History Archive http://oralhistory.rutgers.edu/

8th AF fighters and bombers flew shuttle mission out of the UK bombing the Reich on the way landing in the USSR.............this group then rearmed/refueled and struck oil refineries in Yugoslavia on the way to the mediteranean, the 15th AF fighter took over cover and the bombers hit railyards in France on the way back to the UK............
gary

Thanks, Guys,
Gary, my guess is that he is a genuine crew member, may have just been a little off target in talking about bombing Rommel's tanks in Italy, but I don't know for sure. He seemed a little uncomfortable with questions, and whenever it varied from what he was saying.
He did say they bombed Polesti, and he used that term. I didn't know or remember that those missions started in Russia.
The last thing I wanted to do when talking in person was make him feel bad whether it was all exactly true or even partly true. That serves no purpose and is just bad manners, particularly as I was the guest there.

_________________
Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

I was under the impression those were B24 raids?

_________________
Those who possess real knowledge are rare.

Those who can set that knowledge into motion in the physical world are rarer still.

The few who possess real knowledge and can set it into motion of their own hands are the rarest of all.

The hearing loss will often generate that bewildered look.
It's a wonder those bomber vets and so many other veteran soldiers had any hearing left after the war.

I've met some 15th AF veterans also that had an overnight or two in Russia, with bombing accomplished on both legs.

Interesting story, Bill.

One thought that comes to mind is that if he was romancing, he'd go for better known or more familiar areas of the bomber war, or something that has a fame cachet (like the AVG wannabes) and avoids the puzzled reaction. So it sounds genuine to me, simply because it's not overly plausible.

Russian Shuttle Raids on the NMUSAF website:
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsh ... sp?id=1653
As mentioned, only one of a number of mostly forgotten operations.

Regards,

_________________
James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

There were a lot more raids on Ploesti than just the one famous one.

And by airplanes other than the B-24, like the B-17 for example.

You'd know if he was really there if he pronounced it "Ploe-wesh".

I got 'schooled' by some Romanian AF officers when I was TDY there and asked them about "Ploe-estee".

_________________

OK, I'll bite, what did they have to say about it?

Also, Randy, I've thought how interesting it would be to comb the crash sites of the 24's of the original raid to see if there are any bits and pieces still laying around or buried. Do you know if this has been done already?

Thanks.
Michael

Well none of the B17 raids made it into any of the books/stories I've read


I think if a veteran was going to embellish his service record he'd make up stories about being a cook or a clerk. From all the veterans I've met over the years I've yet to meet anyone who was a cook or clerk, must have been hellishly dangerous work...

_________________
Those who possess real knowledge are rare.

Those who can set that knowledge into motion in the physical world are rarer still.

The few who possess real knowledge and can set it into motion of their own hands are the rarest of all.

There have been numerous instances of the bombing of Ploesti. Look at all the references here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_Campai ... rld_War_II


Among them:

6 June 44: In the 1st large-scale American attempt to use a dispersed bomber force to spread out fighter defenses in Romania, Ploesti was bombed[27]:118 (the 485 BG bombed the Dacia Romana oil refinery). Additional B-17s, including some Soviet-based for Operation Frantic, attacked the Galati Airdrome: "most oil from Ploesti must be shipped west over [the] Danube for refining." (annex of intelligence report)[28]:145

10 June 44: 36 P-38s dive-bombed 3 Ploesti oil refineries by flying under the smoke screens.[6]:153

9 Aug 44: The No. 205 Group RAF bombed the Romana Americana refinery.

10 Aug 44: 450+ B-17s and B-24s bombed 6 oil refineries.[70] The 464 BG bombed the Astro Romano refinery, and the 461 BG bombed the Xenia oil refinery.

19 Aug 44: 65 B-17s with 125 P-51s escorts bombed 2 Ploesti area oil refineries. Ploesti was captured August 30[9]:204 after a total of 350 bombers had been lost attacking the area.[23]:172 The Fifteenth Air Force had dropped 12,804 tons of explosives on Ploesti targets, On October 17, a Fifteenth Air Force B-17 carried a photo crew to Ploesti.


And many others.

Bill, one thing I have learned through the years from continual contact with vets from my fathers group is. Some of these guys are still sharp as a tack and some have fading memories. One P-51 pilot can hardly remember specific details now about airfields he strafed (and I know for fact he has air to air credits and ground credits documented). Others can still describe what happened on specific missions. These guys are in their late 80's and early 90's so the fellow you spoke with can very well be legit.

Craig

_________________
CraigQ