New Corsair restoration at OSH?

[sdennison]

Owned by John O'Connor...its a Brewster bomb rack as far as I know...

So, during the Warbirds in Review presentation, the story of the Brewster bomb rack rack was told. It is true that only one still exisits, this is an exact reprodution of that original.

It was ground crew who thought to adapt the hard mounts for the external fuel tank to carry a 1000 lb bomb. After many field units were build and proven, the actual field model was given to Brewster Aircraft Co. to manufacture. No idea of how many were actually built but only one WWII edition is known to exist.

John used this "survivor" to retool for the one now on this aircraft.

Also interesting was the story of the flight to OSH when the engine started running bad. He got it on the ground and after using three different aircraft to ferry all sorts of parts to repair the engine, it was discovered that the rotor in the distributor had returned to the "dust" state of matter. After replacing the rotor, all was good. Someone will have a much more detailed description of this, I am sure.

[k5083]

I agree with Greg, I think the National Geographic pic is colorized black-and-white, not just primitive color.

Lots of zero marks for observation being racked up here.

What's that little word on the lower right of the image? "Kodachrome"? Gee.

Fair enough.

That doesn't mean its color wasn't "enhanced" by a retoucher. I suspect it was.

August

[John Beyl]

Owned by John O'Connor...its a Brewster bomb rack as far as I know...

So, during the Warbirds in Review presentation, the story of the Brewster bomb rack rack was told. It is true that only one still exisits, this is an exact reprodution of that original.

It was ground crew who thought to adapt the hard mounts for the external fuel tank to carry a 1000 lb bomb. After many field units were build and proven, the actual field model was given to Brewster Aircraft Co. to manufacture. No idea of how many were actually built but only one WWII edition is known to exist.

John used this "survivor" to retool for the one now on this aircraft.

Also interesting was the story of the flight to OSH when the engine started running bad. He got it on the ground and after using three different aircraft to ferry all sorts of parts to repair the engine, it was discovered that the rotor in the distributor had returned to the "dust" state of matter. After replacing the rotor, all was good. Someone will have a much more detailed description of this, I am sure.

Hi Scott,

I would have bet my bottom dollar John told me it was the original...He must have spoken into my bad ear (Actually there is probably a service disconnect between my good ear and brain!).

I was hoping to hook up with you at some point but being the smart person I am, I forgot to enter your phone number into my cell before I left home. I kept looking for the Major's T-33 but never saw it. I figured the two of you would have flown in together.

John

[RMAllnutt]

Wow, Mike's pics are even more confusing!

At first glance it looks like the underside of the wings might be dark blue, then you notice there is a demarcation where the top color wraps around a few inches onto the bottom, which is clearly lighter. Also there is too much contrast between the wing underside color and the US insignia blue for the wing underside to be dark blue. Could be either intermediate blue or faded dark blue. One thing that does seem certain is the evidence of both field repainting and a lot of fading.

The second pic actually seems to show a strip of intermediate blue along the inboard wing leading edge between the dark blue and the white, and then intermediate blue outer undersides. A fascinating variation.

Interesting pics!

I agree with Greg, I think the National Geographic pic is colorized black-and-white, not just primitive color.

August

The second pic is an FG-1A at Pax River(Mar. 15, 1944). Paint is most likely factory applied.
It also has an odd type tail wheel assembly, perhaps an experimental "tall" tail wheel assy.

Fascinating pics Mike... especially the tail wheel on the FG-1A that you mentioned. It is the first time that I have seen a photograph of this style of tail wheel assembly from back in the day. I believe that it was an interim step between the much shorter variety of the F4U-1 and the taller type typically seen on the F4U-1D and later. Interstingly, I don't believe it was purely experimental, as a friend of mine has one of these, also from an FG-1A, which was assigned to a US-based training sqadron. It is basically an F4U-1 style tail gear with two steel plates bolted on the outside to extend it... thus raising the tail for better forward visibility while on the ground... as was achieved with the more commonly seen later version.

Cheers,
Richard

[Matt Gunsch]

and people wonder why guy like John Lane and others no longer post on here. John is, by now, after what 4 or is it 6 Corsair restorations, THE Corsair expert when it comes to markings and making them as close to perfect as they can be. Why don't all of you who are questioning the colors of the wings just got ahead and get it off your chest and ask him what dash number carb and fuel pump are installed so you can debate that as well.
In case you all forgot, there was a war on, and they used what they had when it came to paint. If it called for dark blue, they painted it dark blue from what ever source they had, they did not care if it was a 1/2 shade too dark or too light. When it came to Tech orders, it is all in who reads it and how they interpet it. One might feather a line, others might mask it, which is correct ? the answer is BOTH, because they were doing the job, the paint was on the plane.

[Fouga23]

and people wonder why guy like John Lane and others no longer post on here. John is, by now, after what 4 or is it 6 Corsair restorations, THE Corsair expert when it comes to markings and making them as close to perfect as they can be. Why don't all of you who are questioning the colors of the wings just got ahead and get it off your chest and ask him what dash number carb and fuel pump are installed so you can debate that as well.
In case you all forgot, there was a war on, and they used what they had when it came to paint. If it called for dark blue, they painted it dark blue from what ever source they had, they did not care if it was a 1/2 shade too dark or too light. When it came to Tech orders, it is all in who reads it and how they interpet it. One might feather a line, others might mask it, which is correct ? the answer is BOTH, because they were doing the job, the paint was on the plane.

Well said!! My speciality is Belgian Fouga's and in over 10 years of research I haven't seen a single one painted completely by T.O.! The last 2 we painted whilst in service, we especially painted them different in subtle ways to piss off the rivet counters

[MKD1966]

and people wonder why guy like John Lane and others no longer post on here. John is, by now, after what 4 or is it 6 Corsair restorations, THE Corsair expert when it comes to markings and making them as close to perfect as they can be. Why don't all of you who are questioning the colors of the wings just got ahead and get it off your chest and ask him what dash number carb and fuel pump are installed so you can debate that as well.
In case you all forgot, there was a war on, and they used what they had when it came to paint. If it called for dark blue, they painted it dark blue from what ever source they had, they did not care if it was a 1/2 shade too dark or too light. When it came to Tech orders, it is all in who reads it and how they interpet it. One might feather a line, others might mask it, which is correct ? the answer is BOTH, because they were doing the job, the paint was on the plane.

I've been thinking along these same lines Matt... When they restored the Gary Kohl corsair I remembered they were docked points by a judge who thought something was the wrong shade when in reality it had been restored to factory specs... I don't know Mr. Lane, but looking at the quality of the restorations his place puts out - I'm guessing that although the bottom of the wings may not be the color that alot think they should be - I would bet money they have a photo or some type of documentation that it existed somewhere during service... Just my .02... Bottom line is it's a beautiful bird !!!
Mike

[airnutz]

I agree with Greg, I think the National Geographic pic is colorized black-and-white, not just primitive color.

Lots of zero marks for observation being racked up here.

What's that little word on the lower right of the image? "Kodachrome"? Gee.

Fair enough.

That doesn't mean its color wasn't "enhanced" by a retoucher. I suspect it was.

August

Another thing to consider is the color filters used during film processing back then. Remember the "Blue P-51s"
controversey of the 361st FG?

[k5083]

Matt, Fouga23, and possibly Mike: get over yourselves.

Nobody, nobody on this thread is questioning that the restoration's colors are accurate. I don't give a hoot who John Lane is. I assume he's researched his paint scheme, just like anybody who enters a $20 plastic model of a Corsair into a major competition does, and if you'll review my first post you'll see I said that I expected it was correct and documented.

We have been discussing a few photographs and whether they suggest that dark blue under the wings was ever a Navy-specified or factory-applied color scheme. That has nothing to do with whether the restoration is accurate, since it could represent a field repaint. The worst you can accuse us color/markings buffs of is hijacking the thread a little. And it's provoked the posting of some interesting photos and info.

Sheesh.

August

[JDK]

and people wonder why guy like John Lane and others no longer post on here. John is, by now, after what 4 or is it 6 Corsair restorations, THE Corsair expert when it comes to markings and making them as close to perfect as they can be. Why don't all of you who are questioning the colors of the wings just got ahead and get it off your chest and ask him what dash number carb and fuel pump are installed so you can debate that as well.
In case you all forgot, there was a war on, and they used what they had when it came to paint. If it called for dark blue, they painted it dark blue from what ever source they had, they did not care if it was a 1/2 shade too dark or too light. When it came to Tech orders, it is all in who reads it and how they interpet it. One might feather a line, others might mask it, which is correct ? the answer is BOTH, because they were doing the job, the paint was on the plane.

Mmmm.

Someone asked a reasonable question as to why the upper blue was non standard and why it was extended beyond the wing fold - neither is an offensive question, and neither cannot be answered - if there's a good reason, which given John's expertise is the most likely explanation, we'd all be keen to hear it - but we haven't yet. If it causes pain that people dare comment on non standard details, bear in mind that interest is what's raised the bar in restorations. If everyone was happy with inverted stars and blue Mustangs, that's what we'd still have.

One key reason restorations like this prize winner are to the standard they are today is because of interest by enthusiasts, modellers and the rivet counters - many of whom are the same people as the restorers. Most of us are past the 'ooo look purdy Mustang' level of interest in W.W.II aircraft and many have expertise to share - often for free.

Debates and discussions here are a great way of learning - but only when we accept that knowledge is to be shared, and knowledge, rather than opinion, is based on evidence, not opinion. I'd be happy to hear either - 'we thought that the best interpretation because...' or 'here's our source which says it was like this' or whatever else.

From this thread and restoration, apart from the debate on the colour and extent, I've learned about Lindbergh flying Corsairs (didn't know that) that in the US 'depth charges' are called 'depth bombs' and single seaters were equipped with rare kit to use them (didn't know that) from that disastrous company Brewster, and there's significant authentic variation behind the firewall in Corsairs (maybe to be expected).

I can't comment on a judge making a mistake specifically, but we are all human and we all err at times. (If someone presents at a competition, it is up to them, to a degree to demonstrate their sources of data for the judge's information. It's part of the deal. No one's forced to play, and I've yet to meet a judge who deserves even one of the insults hurled at them.) If you want to win prizes with a restoration intended to be authentic, you are putting your restoration up for scrutiny - which this one passed. I'd presume the documentation addressed such a stand-out item, which is part of the reason it got the palm, and naturally, I'd like to know too, rather than 'my mate's untouchable'.

It looks like a great restoration from the photos, and a tip of the hat. Were I working on a book on the Corsair (maybe one day) like I recently did on the P-51D, I'd ask the restorer why the non standard colours are the way they are, and I've generally got a very helpful response. In the case of the P-51D, great help from a number of people, some here, some who I'd regard as experts, others would call 'rivet counters' as well as restorers. The book was all the better for their input, while on the other hand I've subsequently had errors and omissions pointed out to me in the book. That's in the nature of human endeavour. Rather than trying to deny or ignore the mistakes, it's stuff to try and get right next time (- edition in my case).

Another thing to consider is the color filters used during film processing back then. Remember the "Blue P-51s" controversey of the 361st FG?

I think in general that had a lot more to do with the printing processes of the day than the quality of the original image. In the specific case, I'm not sure though.

As has several times been said, it would be risky to ascribe specific blue tones to what was a robust four colour process, possibly enhanced or retouched. The original transparency, on the other hand would be very useful, and it exist(ed).

I also would like to confess to winding-up Mr August H, just because it's a rare oportunity, Y'rhonour.

Regards,

[DaveM2]

Were I working on a book on the Corsair (maybe one day) like I recently did on the P-51D,

Wait just a cottin' pickin' minute -surely that is a typo- YOU did a book -a whole book - on the P-51

I can't understand it, the world has been turned upside down ( mumble -dribble -mumble)

[corsairboss]

Im going to have my Corsair painted "Puzzy Pink", with a Mexican "Tuck and Roll" in the Cockpit, Purple interior, and wheel Wells, and Wing Fold, Gold Exhaust Pipes, The Prop will have a different Color on each of the Blades, the hub will checkered, and there will be a "Hooters" Cup Holder in the cockpit on the right side...Oh and I will have a matching Parachute to compliment my Puzzy Pink Corsair,...geeeee might as well get a Flight Suit and Helmet...Now "You'all" can find some History Photos, and Bitch about the Color and My Bomb Rack...Oh BTW...the Bomb rack will be the Biggest Bra I can find to hang on the bottom....!!!!!!!

John Lane and Umlimited Airpower...Thanks for another Job and another Flying Corsair.

Doug Fisher ..."Thanks" for the Photos...Mike Schneider will be getting ahold of you for a new web site we are doing on "The Corsair"...he is going to ask permission to use some photos..!!!

[JDK]

But Corsairboss, you don't, so it's still just noise!

Some people are over-reacting to something that's not even been said...

Were I working on a book on the Corsair (maybe one day) like I recently did on the P-51D,

Wait just a cottin' pickin' minute -surely that is a typo- YOU did a book -a whole book - on the P-51

I can't understand it, the world has been turned upside down ( mumble -dribble -mumble)

Sorry for the unintentional shock! It was a tough moment for me, too. The book was written by my colleague Robert Peczkowski, and my role was to source and get details on a number of details from accurately restored or original Mustangs and input on critical points from various experts including several WIX folks. Oh, and editing it too.

Getting the why behind decisions for restoration details was as important as having those details documented.

I did was my hands afterwards though!

Regards,

[Django]

Im going to have my Corsair painted "Puzzy Pink", with a Mexican "Tuck and Roll" in the Cockpit, Purple interior, and wheel Wells, and Wing Fold, Gold Exhaust Pipes, The Prop will have a different Color on each of the Blades, the hub will checkered, and there will be a "Hooters" Cup Holder in the cockpit on the right side...Oh and I will have a matching Parachute to compliment my Puzzy Pink Corsair,...geeeee might as well get a Flight Suit and Helmet...Now "You'all" can find some History Photos, and Bitch about the Color and My Bomb Rack...Oh BTW...the Bomb rack will be the Biggest Bra I can find to hang on the bottom....!!!!!!!

So it will be racing at Reno then?

[k5083]

I also would like to confess to winding-up Mr August H, just because it's a rare oportunity, Y'rhonour.

And I always appreciate it.

Especially when coupled with such cogent comments. Your point about the role of judges is especially well taken. I frequently hear criticism like that above, of judges having the temerity to question the god-like knowledge or practices of a particular restorer. That is exactly what judges are supposed to do -- probe, question, push back. If they dock you points because you didn't convince them you did something authentically, that is your fault not theirs. When I'm before the kind of judges who wear robes, I've never yet heard one say, "Well Mr. H, you've done two books on this area of law and know it much better than I do, I guess I'll just assume you're right about this."

I also doubt that restorers are driven off by the fact that this is not just the Warbird Flattery Exchange. In my experience, most experts are pleased to engage on pointed questions from a relatively informed audience, and not that many just want to hear, "Oooh, awsome plane, may I please kiss your wrench?"

BTW, wasn't it exactly 30 years ago that a Corsair won OSH Grand Champ with what are now thought to be the wrong color checkers painted on the cowl and rudder?

August