Otay Reservoir SB2C-The recovery operation has begun!!!

RickH · **Posted:** Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:01 am

Quote:

And here we are today with a successful recovery, which I think we can all agree is A Good Thing'?

Obviously a good thing, James. But I fear that ya'll are missing an important message. It is great that we have had these recent recoveries, but, they are internal Navy recoveries. These recoveries are not private recoveries, Taras is working for NMNA not Joe Q. Public. These aircraft have been brought back into the Navy fold, they retain ownership. When an individual is issued a permit for a private recovery and the individual retains ownership without fear of confiscation, only then, we will have seen real progress on this issue.

Owen Miller · **Joined:** Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:28 pm **Posts:** 614

RickH,
Let me clarify my post from '09. It came from a
string devoted to the L. Mich recoveries, before the
Hellcat or the L. Otay Helldiver were widely known
about. It was not intended to include the jets you
refer to. I don't know the specifics on the jets and
can't really comment.
You may be interested to read the '09 string. I
think this will get you there...

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=33243&p=332451&hilit=liability#p332451

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
If two out of three isn't good enough for your position, I
don't think you'll see number three. Time will tell which
of us is correct. Again, I don't think you will see any more
USN warbirds flying.

Blue skies,
Owen

RickH · **Posted:** Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:37 am

Owen, the jets fell under more stringent rules since they are turbine powered. The TA-4 is obviously a former Navy aircraft. The legislation, and subsequently the Public Law, specifically includes a hold harmless, as does the Conditional Deed of gift.

O2s were just put up for bid by NMUSAF without any language suggesting a restriction of flight. They are no different than Navy aircraft where liability is concerned

The liability issue regarding flight is not so much a service issue as it is a DoD position.

The Navy, NHC, NMNA don't seem to have much concern about flying liability unless it's a recovered aircraft. I'm sorry, but I just don't see any real difference in an aircraft allowed to fly out of AMARG or one privately recovered then painstakingly restored to better than new condition. Is there really any difference in perceived liability for selling and restoring a Lake Michigan Wildcat to flight, or the CAF's S2F or even the CF S-2A in which the logbook shows that it was turned over to NMNA for trade purposes with the full knowledge that it would be flown.

The USAF tried to take the liabilty position as it regards the F105 transfer, it just doesn't hold water. By their definition the US Govt could be held liable for every surplus aircraft ever released to private entities for all time. It just doesn't happen that way in the real world.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:17 am

I'm celebrating the fact that we have one more helldiver on it's way to restoration and display than we did last week. On the other items, both sides have very valid points.

F3A-1 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:01 am

To all,

This is a good and healthy debate. "ALL" points are well taken. I will still continue to lobby for the Navy to relinquish title to the planes they have abandoned. I am not bitter or spiteful, I am very thankful for the amazing support for my disagreement with the Navy and its outcome. I just want to see more airplanes saved from the elements.

I do agree that the NMNA is one of the finest aviation museums in the world. I support their work, and have a link to it from my website. I support the men and women of the Navy (and all branches of service). I have a sign next to the Corsair stating so. However, I do not agree with Naval Policies.

Sorry to have hyjacked the thread.

Pirate Lex
http://www.BrewsterCorsair.com

Pogmusic · **Posted:** Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:11 am

What a great recovery! Way to go!

the330thbg · **Joined:** Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:06 pm **Posts:** 2713

This is Brilliant!!!

I love it when a plan comes together!

Great job by all!

Mazeltov!!!!

best,

Smisek

Django · **Posted:** Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:10 pm

Looking forward to the pics from Pensacola when they clean the ol' girl out.

Dave Lindauer · **Posted:** Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:26 pm

Hopefully the absence of zebra mussels will make the cleanup job easier and preserve more of the original paint.

Pat Carry · **Posted:** Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:31 pm

The restoration shop at the NMNA is going to be quite busy for awhile w/ 3 recent Lake Michigan recoveries, the Helldiver and all the work taking place on the planes going into the new addition. How large of a staff do they have there to undertake this task?

Owen Miller · **Joined:** Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:28 pm **Posts:** 614

The paid staff is pretty small. The majority of the work is
done by volunteers. All the snowbirds are gone home this
time of year. The numbers vary up and down. You have
local folks, some retired, and there is an active duty group.

ZRX61 · **Joined:** Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:16 am **Posts:** 2308

shepsair wrote:

For an 'anorak' who likes the information when writing up.

Both 20mm wing cannons are in place though 0.3" twins to gunners location were not in place.
Rocket rails on the wings.
Pitot and antenna surviving.
Nice perforated slates - new on the C-4.
19866 on the fin - anyone notice the side number painted below - looks like a '10'? Assume this from VF-14 (but what about markings for VF-84 (Oct-Dev 44).
Also the number on the port side, front of the cockpit '1' (could be 10 again)?
Tr-colour scheme? Assume so.
Engine number should be there on the remains of the crank case. Hopefully this will not be lost.

Some of em will still be disappointed, you didn't post the serial # of the carb...

shepsair · **Posted:** Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:36 pm

ZRX61

It was a

WEBER 40 DCOE CARBURETTOR

451-659-4000
MkII

Joking aside, will be interesting to look at cowls and other panels to see if there are any other BuNo.

The Hellcat carried panels from 4 other Hellcats - none of which seem to have served with VF-38. Probalby fitted during overhaul before going to Glenview etc.

regards

Mark

DaveM2 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:39 pm

[/quote]

Ummm.......TBD....the last extinct bird the Museum really, really needs.[/quote]

Perhaps I should have said Continental US waters....[/quote]

Ummm, there is..... a TBD......just offshore of Miami.[/quote]

Geez-OK..inland US Continental fresh water then ( get around that -dare ya).The Miami TBD isn't worth the salt it is in now anyway, hence the surveying of the Kwaj example

Jesse C. · **Posted:** Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:42 pm

Sorry to interrupt the bickering with actual news that pertain to the subject matter, but, I thought some might like to know that parts of the plane are now being stored at the San Diego Air and Space Museum Annex at Gillespie field and it can be viewed by the public.

I know, lively discussion, opinions, yada yada freaking yada! :Hangman:

I will try to get out there this week and take some more pics of what they have there!

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Otay Reservoir SB2C-The recovery operation has begun!!!

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