R-3350 problems?

[Neal Nurmi]

A major part of the Reno Air Racing story over the last 15 years has been the rise of the Sea Fury racers. Some years the Gold Race seemed to be about Rare Bear, Dago Red and a whole flock of R-3350 Sea Furies running ungodly power and posting speeds of 425 t0 440 mph. The Sea Fury boys would make fun of the Merlin guys for their extra spare motors and their yearly rebuilds, while the Pardues, Sanders, Dawsons, Keenums and Ezells of the world would change the plugs, reset the timing on their ten year old motors and head for Reno.

This year, the only 3350 Sea Fury entered has been scratched due to engine failure. The Sanders boys are reportedly working up an R-2800 to replace the Wright in Argonaut after several engine failures in recent years, each of which costs the equivalent of a loaded Lexus to get fixed. Apparently a newly restored Sea Fury in Britain has eaten two motors in 3 months. Suddenly R-3350s are looking terribly fragile. No more making fun of the Mustang guys???

So what seems to be the issue here, other than no more canned Alameda rebuilds available? Is there a common thread to the recent Wright failures? What do the Skyraider guys (and FiFi guys, and Neptune operaters, etc.) think of all this? Is there a solution on the horizon? Is the R-2800 a workable replacement in the Sea Fury? As an aside, what was the displacement of the Centaurus -- closer to the Wright or the P&W?

It would certainly change the warbird landscape if the 3350 was suddenly no longer a viable option...

[ovalila]

On the "aside"....

Bristol Centaurus had a cylinder capacity of 3,270 in³. I guess that'd make R-3350 in the ball park replacement for Centaurus as what comes to the displacement? The rest of the pondering I'll leave for those more in the know.

[Bill Greenwood]

I recently visited with Howard Pardue when he and Carolyn were in town escaping the 100 * Houston heat. We talked a little bit about Reno, he is not racing this year, but didn't get into an engine specifics.

One thing I think about the races, you can make any claims for the radials and and knocks against the Merlins, but for year after year, the only one that ever outruns the fastest Merlin engine planes like Strega or maybe Dago Red, is Rare Bear, and it needs a 3350 to do what a 1650 Merlin does.

The 3350 s go pretty fast, last pretty well, even sound pretty good, and Fury wings resemble a Spitfire when banked, but if Strega was only going to lap at 425 it would probably last a long time also.

I think Howard's stock Bearcat had some laps around 415 which is pretty fast. It and his Fury are everyday planes without all the airframe mods to streamline them more. I think the Fury may have spray water, not sure about the Bearcat.

[JDK]

Can't comment as to the rest, but:

...Apparently a newly restored Sea Fury in Britain has eaten two motors in 3 months...

Unless I've missed something - there are no, have been no, and under current legal expectations, will be no 'Merican-engine Sea Furies/Furies based in the UK. Only Centaurus powered versions.

Regards,

[engguy]

R-3350 had problems into the 60's, there were problems with blower drive failures, on the turbocompound engines.
Some failures were catastrophic and some not. So I guess there was still room for improvement with the 3350's.
If an overhauled engine fails because of a part such as what caused these blower drive failures, that is something that the overhauler can not control, I wonder how many overhaul places end up getting a bad rep, or law suit when they had no hand in the cause?
Also it looks like these engines were considered pretty reliable because the TBO was 3500 hours, and thats pretty good.

[happymeal]

Can't comment as to the rest, but:

...Apparently a newly restored Sea Fury in Britain has eaten two motors in 3 months...

Unless I've missed something - there are no, have been no, and under current legal expectations, will be no 'Merican-engine Sea Furies/Furies based in the UK. Only Centaurus powered versions.

Regards,

That Sea Fury has gone to France. And as far as I know, its restored 3350 had two failures during the test flight phase done in the US, so had to be shipped back to the engine specialist twice.

[3350nut]

it seems mabe the only problems with the 3350,aside from pilot error (i.e. throttle jockeys)could be from improper maint. improper operating procedures (100 ll compared to 115/145) or just using the wrong o/h shop. it would seem if u found a shop with quality mechanics who take pride in there work and are willing to stand behind there work even when something doesent work right might be a place to look at. and last year didnt rare bear use an eng.that was put together for fifi (basically a stock -95 powercase & nose with a slightly modified -26 blower. of which anderson has plenty of -26WD engs.) built by anderson and the last i heard was it ran fine and didnt make any metal.sure it didnt come in first but it did finish in second, not bad for andersons third eng. of that combo. so there may be no more nas alameda engs. or any good gary o/hs.(there were a few) out there. there is at least one o/h shop that takes pride in there work and i work there. dan stout Curtis & Wright eng o/h mechanic

[Tinker51]

Don't forget people were having this very discussion just a few years back regarding the fragility of racing Merlins.
Just a phase.

[happymeal]

As far as I understood, there is an issue with main crankshaft bearing "new out of the box" as the plating does not stand in time. Those bearing would need some form of treatment before being put in the engine, and we know what treatment to do, but that would mean said treatment would need to be FAA approved first, and it has not been done so far. That is what I understoof, so there may be some flaws in my explanation.

[engguy]

it seems mabe the only problems with the 3350,aside from pilot error (i.e. throttle jockeys)could be from improper maint. improper operating procedures (100 ll compared to 115/145) or just using the wrong o/h shop. it would seem if u found a shop with quality mechanics who take pride in there work and are willing to stand behind there work even when something doesent work right might be a place to look at. and last year didnt rare bear use an eng.that was put together for fifi (basically a stock -95 powercase & nose with a slightly modified -26 blower. of which anderson has plenty of -26WD engs.) built by anderson and the last i heard was it ran fine and didnt make any metal.sure it didnt come in first but it did finish in second, not bad for andersons third eng. of that combo. so there may be no more nas alameda engs. or any good gary o/hs.(there were a few) out there. there is at least one o/h shop that takes pride in there work and i work there. dan stout Curtis & Wright eng o/h mechanic

Thank you for posting, this is the first time I have ever seen a post from aircraft engine overhaul person on any discussion board. Please frequent this site.
Oh and not just Rare Bear, I think Anderson had a bunch of other engines that ran and came in good positions at last years Reno air races.

[b29driver]

If one were to "hang around the pool hall" with the big boys and listen carefully the shortage of R-3350 racers probably has a lot more to do with the way that competitors are treated and compensated than it does a shortage of engines or engine problems.

[Tim Adams]

There will never be enough prize money to make air racing affordable. Never has, never will. We know Howard retired, so that is one 3350 that is still running but not there. Sept. Pops was repainted and it looks like it's racing days are over. Sept. Fury's engine was not pickled properly so that's another 3350 down, but not because of engine failure. There are two however that did have engine failures, Argo and Riff Raff, this has got nothing to do with how RARA has treated them, I'm not trying to be a RARA cheerleader here either. As it has been reported, this is not the first engine Argo has had issues with. One blew up on course a couple of years ago, and a couple of years before that it got stuck in Oshkosh after making metal, plus the three 3350's it took to get one Sea Fury to France. All of these don't have a thing to do with RARA.

[b29driver]

This is the first year in 12 that I have not been on a working crew of an R3350 at Reno. Maybe you haven't heard the same conversations that I have about RARA. I'm not trying to start a conversation bashing them. It is a fact, however, that I have personally witnessed many competitors loosing their enthusiasm for the program.

[Kyleb]

This is the first year in 12 that I have not been on a working crew of an R3350 at Reno. Maybe you haven't heard the same conversations that I have about RARA. I'm not trying to start a conversation bashing them. It is a fact, however, that I have personally witnessed many competitors loosing their enthusiasm for the program.

Is it because of anything RARA is or isn't doing, or is it because these aircraft are becoming even more valuable to own (particularly, restored examples, instead of racers) and the fact that these aircraft are becoming much harder to maintain due to age, parts availablity, and a shortage of people who understand big recips?

All of those things would seem to be mounting burdens on Unlimited Racing.

[51fixer]

Is it because of anything RARA is or isn't doing, or is it because these aircraft are becoming even more valuable to own (particularly, restored examples, instead of racers) and the fact that these aircraft are becoming much harder to maintain due to age, parts availablity, and a shortage of people who understand big recips?

RARA is a self serving organization. The racer isn't the 1st priority IMHO.
Interest to race comes and goes. There isn't a lack of knowledgeable people. The ratio of those people vs the available aircraft isn't huge on either side of that equation. Both the aircraft and people people are there.
The problem is having people who are motivated to race. The factors lay there. Value, purse size, feeding the egos, ect all need to be addressed to have racers.
Enough people seem to show up as fans and racers to keep things going. It might end up that quality suffers in the end product but the quantity is sufficient to keep things going.
Rich