Warbird Information Exchange

It is official that U S forces are supposed to be ending combat in Iraq, after more than 7 years of war with over 4400 killed and perhaps 10 times that number wounded.

Let's say a soldier does survive Iraq, alive and physically intact and does not get sent to Afghan. When they get home will there likely be any decent civilian jobs for them?

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Glad to hear that all the killing has stopped now.

With the economy in a shambles as it is, I'm not sure how much it matters. Upon leaving the military they might not find a job, but what are the chances they would have had one still as a civilian?

BDK, that is an interesting way of looking at finding a job. But I would guess that it is easier to have held on to a job that one already had and never left, than it would be to return home after a year or more out of the job market and then try to find a new job.

Some employers may be sympathetic to vets when it comes to new hiring, but if the applicant does not have the same skills or job training as a non vet, then what do you do? Unless you are applying to be a policeman in Philadelphia, the training as a soldier on combat patrol may not be relevant to what a civilian job needs.

As for the killing ending, that would be great, but unfortunately for U S soldiers much of it now seems to have shifted to Afgahn, where our troops are easy targets again and losses are escalating, now over 100 a month I believe is the latest figure.

There are a lot of bumper stickers on SUVs that say "support our troops". Sounds simple and good on its face, but what will that slogan be worth in coming years if there are thousands of troops that can't find good jobs and may need expensive and even lifetime medical care for wounds, either physical or psychological? Is today's soldier to some extent a future possibility of being one of the homeless vets from Nam or elsewhere that we see on the streets?

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

I googled your headline and this is what I found.

http://www.google.com/webhp#hl=en&sourc ... pbx=1&fp=1

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" excuse me stewardess I speak jive"

262, that is a good idea and in looking it up I see that there are a number of sources offering to find jobs for vets. Some are non profit or govt run. I would be very careful of any for profit services, as there is a potential for scams there when they ask for payment up front.

But the fact that there are all these sources means that it is likely not easy for many vets to find the jobs on their own.

It is a fact that the unemployment rate is about 10 %, over 9 for sure; and many of those working are underemployed in low paying jobs or with little advancement potential.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Agreed!



Maybe? Or hopefully our new vet's are looked at in a better light then previous generations? I do hope so!


I think this could be said about most Americans. I have the same concerns!

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" excuse me stewardess I speak jive"

I have an employee that will be shipping out to Iraq for one year as part of his service to the National Guard. The company will put him on a leave of absence and his job will be waiting for him when he gets back. He is an experienced professional however.

If someone joins the military fresh out of high school though, I'm not sure that they have an advantage either way upon their return to society. Hopefully they learned something of value while they were in the military that can apply to the civilian world. If not, they need to take advantage of the GI Bill (if that even still exists). I'm not sure how much more employable a foot soldier would be than any other unskilled person. Discipline is always helpful, but that doesn't translate into job skills.

Interesting discussion, I wish I had some facts rather than just my suppositions.

Does the G I bill exist anymore?

When I learned to fly back 30 years ago, many of the instructors had gotten their training under the Gi bill postwar, WWII or Korea. It sure seemed to help aviation.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

It's actually been significantly enhanced within the last couple years...although it is less applicable to flying training than the 'old' Montgomery GI Bill was.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-9/11_ ... ct_of_2008

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First off, I have a lot of good friends in the military. This is NOT directed at you, but at the policies of those over you. I appreciate your service and in no way question your motives.

I'm not trying to jump into a frying pan, but...

If it weren't for our military forces being used in unconstitutional ways, there'd likely be plenty of opportunities (not necessarily just jobs) for the vets coming home. The unconstitutional, undeclared (by Congress) wars we have fought in for the last 50 years or more have cost the taxpayers (especially business owners) lots of money that could have been invested in different business opportunities and ideas.
Meanwhile, new taxes and stupid regulations have been implemented by the government those troops are supporting doing further harm to good companies. A good example of this is the company my father works for who in the past has sold a lot of really neat army surplus for boys to play with. This year they have had to cease marketing any vintage military surplus items to children because they have not been tested for lead. Other good toys and products are also done in, especially from small companies, because they cannot afford to do lead testing on, lets say, wooden swords and shields. Pretty dumb, but it's now the law.
I'm all for a strong military in time of national emergency, but if the war's not really accomplishing worthy goals, every single service member is costing their relatives and other people a lot of money to support them. They will also continue to cost business owners when they retire. I wish more young people had a vision for peaceful business endeavors rather than jumping into the military and giving politicians more fodder to work with. We should go back to the model where Congress couldn't keep an army more than two years.
There are plenty of opportunities for veterans, Bill, the trouble is that the military and our current public school system doesn't train them to find the jobs, or create them. We need more people trained by their fathers to be entrepreneurs. To assess a situation, find problems or areas that could use a solution, or build a better mousetrap, and then go out and do it. If you are a veteran and want to work, and have been trained to use your skills, then you should be able to find something to occupy yourself with, just like the rest of us who are civillians!

Ryan

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Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.

Gee, Ryan, you sound like that Commie Spitfire guy, except even more so. What good red blooded real Amerkin doesn't love a war, any war? Specially one they don't have to finght in.
And like the Bob Dylan song said, never ask why( or why not). The specific phrase was, I think, "you don't count the dead when God's on our side".
Now to be serious, lead, in toys or paint or anything else can posion kids, so that has to be prevernted. How would or could this be done so kids are protected and business can still operate?

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Randy, I went and looked at your reference to the current G I bill. I found it to be fairly genereous if a vet had served 3 years after 9-11.
The other thing I found was the Bush, when he was President opposed the bill. Yep , that's right Pres W, Mr. pro war, support our troops, darling of the right, whose Father was a real combat vet in WW II, opposed the bill to reward current vets for their service, according to what WIK says about the issue.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Haha. I knew you'd find that amusing. It isn't the helmet, I promise. I've been coming around to that conclusion a lot recently after considering just war theory a bit more and specifically current application. I've got buddies in Iraq and Afghanistan...I actually do support warfare, if it's justified and has a clear righteous goal.

Um, yeah, I don't want kids poisoned, either, but we actually have to test helmets and shovels for lead? They're USED surplus for crying out loud. And a woman can't sell cloth diapers without testing the cloth for lead? Or we can't sell unpainted wooden toys without lead testing? Give me a break. Sad to say, it is actually happening! If you want to get mad about something, try this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01764.html banning good old used children's books because they MIGHT have lead in the ink.
To get back on topic, there are a LOT of pilots looking for work, too, so I'm not really surprised if some veterans are really having a tough time of it. Often, though, the guys I run into looking for work aren't really desperate enough yet, or willing to consider other fields where they might actually find some work. Other times it just takes more imagination and effort to break through. That's what I've found lately in the flight instruction business.

Ryan

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Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.

I have to post this before Bill and Ryan get the topic locked with politics.



I don't know a single person in the military that doesn't pay taxes. Do some get their income tax free from time to time because of a deployment or something like that? Yes they do. But they do pay taxes most of the time. It costs the same no matter if the goal is "worthy" or not.



I've quite enjoyed my nearly 19yrs in the Military. My wife enjoyed her 4yrs. I know some folks that have joined the military simply because they have no other options. But I know far more that joined for other reasons. Believe it or not, a lot of them are like me and my brother and joined because, as my grandfather said "this is what you owe your country for the privilage of living here". I never intended to stay until retirement but it has been a good life, I've enjoyed it, I've paid my dues and I will be rewarded for it.

If you knew anything at all about military service you would understand how bad the idea of turning over your personel every two years.



The military is not here to teach you to find a job. We are here to teach you to "fly, eat and kill" in the case of the Air Force. When your hitch is up and you choose to return to civilian life, all branches of the military have transition assistance programs to help a person navigate in a world where you have to think for yourself. If you want to stay and make a career out of the military, that option is nearly always open. You just have to play the game long enough to make it 20yrs.



What we need are more people not afraid to do the jobs that are available but they think they are above doing them. What we need is less people that are sitting around waiting for someone else to pay their way in this world, but are unwilling to do anything in return. I know very few groups of individuals that are better at assessing a situation, finding solutions and such than ones that have been in the military. I agree, if you want to work you should have the same chances of finding a job that somebody not in the military has.

Now as far as Bill's original post that started this all, I think one thing is being overlooked. When these wars do end for good, we won't have a mass demobilization of the Military flooding the job market. Nobody was drafted in on a "duration of the war plus six months" timeline. Everyone is on a 2, 4 or 6 year enlistment (commitment levels change between services and officer and enlisted positions) and they would still be in the military tomorrow if we went to a total peactime military right now. When the wars end and we don't need the numbers we have in the military at the moment, then yes there will be quite a few folks looking for civilian employment. It will be nothing like the end of WWII though.

As for the GI Bill, as Randy said, yes it is still around and it is a good deal. My wife is going to college right now using hers. Due to a change in the law recently, my eleven year old daughter will be using my GI bill to go to college when she gets older. All it did was add a few months to my commitment to the USAF.

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Brad

Well said Brad.

I retired after 26 years, and never used any GI Bill benefits, well maybe one, I get a 10% discount at Lowe's Building Center.

I've had a lot of people work under me at my present job, and by far the best were the ex-military, can-do attitude.