Bald Eagle Aviation

[51fixer]

not much flying going on when it's 10 degrees outside

Boy this thread had a great run and how it's looking a squished possum laying on the side of a country road

No excuses! My Pitts doesn't have heat either.....

Untrue Allegation Counselor!
It was this year and a secret mission, but we did fly in the cold.
Somewhere over Maryland-


No icicles hanging from my nose hairs!

I figure that could happen in your Pitts!

[jaybird]

No Rich, I'm able to prevent icicles from hanging from my nose hairs by using the proper technique:




I was in West Chester a couple weeks ago when you guys were having some serious freezing rain. I put the drivers door window down in my rental car, and still had a complete window made of ice covering the opening. It was pretty cool. January has not been a kind vfr month in Ohio either. The logbook is still waiting on a 2011 entry.

[Lynn Allen]

[/quote]
Untrue Allegation Counselor!
It was this year and a secret mission, but we did fly in the cold.
Somewhere over Maryland-


No icicles hanging from my nose hairs!

I figure that could happen in your Pitts![/quote]


Looks like a smile of a happy camper....

[bdk]

Mustang has hot water footwarmers though.

[Django]

Thanks for posting Mr Ruggere's pics!

The prop looks good on the post!

Any updates on the quest to build a VLR Mustang? Haven't heard much about that in awhile.

[jasonp51d]

Please forgive my ignorance but is that prop & spinner real?? If not, may I ask where you got it from?

We are trying to source something similiar for our P-51 cockpit project at the Bottisham Airfield Museum in Cambridgeshire, UK. The museum is dedicated to the 361st FG - same unit as Bald Eagle.

We have sourced a panel, instruments and a canopy but are still looking out for a throttle quadrant, seat and various other items.

Any help very much appreciated.

Best regards

Jason
www.361fg.com
Chairman- Bottisham Airfield Museum Group

[51fixer]

Please forgive my ignorance but is that prop & spinner real?? If not, may I ask where you got it from?

We are trying to source something similiar for our P-51 cockpit project at the Bottisham Airfield Museum in Cambridgeshire, UK. The museum is dedicated to the 361st FG - same unit as Bald Eagle.

We have sourced a panel, instruments and a canopy but are still looking out for a throttle quadrant, seat and various other items.

Any help very much appreciated.

Best regards

Jason
http://www.361fg.com
Chairman- Bottisham Airfield Museum Group

The prop is made by Mike McDougall or Maj to his friends. He recently completed the TA-4 listed for sale on Courtesy.
They are fiberglass and foam made in molds taken from real parts. I believe the spinner mold was made using the spinner from POF's Spam Can.
He sells a kit form and completed, ready to bolt together such as what we hung on our wall.
PM me and I will forward your inquiries to him.
It weighs maybe 50lbs total and is full size.

[jasonp51d]

Rich,

Thanks for the prompt reply.

PM sent.

Very mmuch appreciated.

Cheers (from a very damp former 8th AF building where I am based at Bottisham)

Jason

[51fixer]

The insides of the prop hung on the wall as built by Maj-

This was the official build stand-

Nothing but the best.
To those that sent a PM on the prop kits, I did forward that info.
He didn't get back with the TA-4 from the Centennial Event until the middle of the week so I know he said he will contact you.

[Red Tomcat]

PM sent also.

[hahnej]

Questions for Rich & Jim:

I just got a neat book on the Battle of Britain that shows several pilots in the their Spitfire cockpits wearing thick clothing, a mae west, parachute etc. It looks like they were really stuffed in there. Almost to the point you wonder how they operated the controls and how they were able to look around with the canopy closed. None of the pictures of the pilots outside the aircraft looked like they were large-framed or tall; they all looked fairly thin and average height. The pics of the pilots that were recovering from burns when the fuel tank in front of the cockpit was hit were pretty sobering.

Is the Spitfire cockpit really that tight? How is it compared to a Mustang or other US aircraft? Were the early model Spitfires equiped with self-sealing fuel tanks?

And did the Corsair have issues with its fuel tank catching fire and getting back into the cockpit? Or was it farther forward and with more structure in between? I never heard of that issue with the Corsair.

Thanks,
John

[51fixer]

Questions for Rich & Jim:

I just got a neat book on the Battle of Britain that shows several pilots in the their Spitfire cockpits wearing thick clothing, a mae west, parachute etc. It looks like they were really stuffed in there. Almost to the point you wonder how they operated the controls and how they were able to look around with the canopy closed. None of the pictures of the pilots outside the aircraft looked like they were large-framed or tall; they all looked fairly thin and average height. The pics of the pilots that were recovering from burns when the fuel tank in front of the cockpit was hit were pretty sobering.

Is the Spitfire cockpit really that tight? How is it compared to a Mustang or other US aircraft? Were the early model Spitfires equiped with self-sealing fuel tanks?

And did the Corsair have issues with its fuel tank catching fire and getting back into the cockpit? Or was it farther forward and with more structure in between? I never heard of that issue with the Corsair.

Thanks,
John

The Corsair featured the self sealing fuel cell that is completely rubber and sealing goo material.
The self sealing ability of the Spitfire fuel tank came from wrapping the alum tank with the material. It had layers glued to the exterior of the tank that will expand when fuel will touch it.
The Spit cockpit isn't really tight by terms of square footage where you sit. Biggest area is the hatch you close so your shoulders are closer to the structure compared to many American aircraft that featured a slightly wider canopy. I'm sure that any of the flight crews looked and felt bloated when suited up for their flying chores regardless of their country.
American aircraft did produce electrically heated suits at some point so that would reduce the bulkiness of their attire. As for affecting their performance, I'm sure they adapted and it probably wasn't an issue for most.
The difference to me in terms of the Spit was that sealing of the front of the cockpit isn't the greatest compared to the front cockpit bulkhead of the Corsair that is a riveted structure that is further forward of the instrument panel by a foot. It is also a heavy structure as this bulkhead supports the rear of the fuel cell. Also on some models the firewall was also supported to a degree as a series of steel cables connected the firewall to the forward cockpit frame. These cables ran through the fuel tcell. All the weight of the fuel when it sloshes aft with acceleration is held by that structure.
The Spit has the bulkhead just inches from the instrument panel. The upper portion is removable so the sealing of the edges is not complete. The beefiness is less as the fuel tanks support the fuel vs a bag that sits in structure. Only the lower tank is covered with the self sealing material, the upper tank is not and with the Griffon Spits, the oil tank is there as well. The skin that covers the tank area is thick but still Alum. That also limits the ability to protect the fuel tanks.
There is also a tank, or tanks depending on the model, aft of the pilots seat on various models.
I don't know when the self sealing material was introduced .

[ZRX61]

I don't know when the self sealing material was introduced .

Here ya go:

FPT Industries was formed in 1939 as Fireproof Tanks Ltd (commonly known as FPT)[1] in the boardroom of Airspeed Ltd at Portsmouth Airport in response to an Air Ministry requirement for the development and manufacture of self-sealing fuel tanks for the impending war with Germany.

The intention of the board of directors was to commence work on the manufacture of self-sealing fuel tanks for aircraft entering service with the Royal Air Force, the highest priority being the Fairey Battle single engined bomber which although obsolete was regarded as a front line bomber by the Royal Air Force.

The early tanks were of welded aluminium structure with the sealing material applied as a composite layer on the outside. A major problem with welded aluminium tanks is weld decay and metal fatigue in the seams due to vibration in service. In response to this, the company started to develop flexible fuel bladders in the early 1940s. One of the earliest examples of this was a composite flexible fuel bladder with self sealing coatings for the Supermarine Spitfire MkIX.

Goodyear started making self-sealing tanks in the US in '41

[hahnej]

Thanks for the info Rich!

[51fixer]

None of the tanks in the fus of our Spit are welded. They are all of riveted structure using the De Bergue method of tank building. Both the fuel and oil tanks are of this construction.
Photos I have seen of Merlin oil tanks which hang under the engine seem to be riveted as well.
The wing tanks are flexible fuel cells in each wing leading edge. The 16 Imp or 19 US capacity of each tank gives about 1/2 hr of flying using every last drop. They are fed by air pressure into the main tank by a selector in the cockpit.