Rare photograph of Dreadnaught Row from Flying Fortress

[whistlingdeath77]

is pt 309 the one they had in the water, then took it out?

Yes, I was there the day they put her in a sling and put her back into the water. Bilge pumps were put in place then water levels were monitored for 48 hrs as the hull swelled. She was pretty tight from the git go. The next few days were spent fitting all of the deck structures which had been built, installed, then removed for the overland trip to the boatyard on Clear Lake outside of Houston.

The volunteer crew worked very hard to finish her out with very little real money and many donations from interested companies and individuals. Just before she was run for the first time in many years, the Nimitz Museum heirarchy had her repossed at gunpoint from the volunteer crew who had believed they were going to be allowed to run her at least once. To that end they kept working, right up until the museum personnel figured she was good enough for their display purposes. PT 309 was hoisted out of the water, placed on a trailer and taken to the dry climate of Fredricksburg, Texas. A hole was dug and a simulated dock was built inside a metal building. The boat and trailer were placed into the hole, only her deck and deck structures are visible to the public.

PT309 could have been a wonderful living history exhibit and ambassador extolling the virtues of the Nimitz Museum to a community of 4,000,000 people, instead, she sits, in little Fredricksburg, Texas, far off the beaten path. But because of some narrow minded individuals, she sits high and dry where only a handful see just her top deck each year.

i agree with you 100%. i heard they even took the packard engines out too

[RickH]

When the Nimitz Museum acquired PT309 on the east coast, it was fitted with 3 diesels. The Packards had been gone for decades. They did acquire 1 Packard which remains on a stand on the fake dock next to PT309. The diesels were overhauled at no charge by Stewart and Stevenson in Houston and reinstalled by the volunteer crew after she was put back into the water. Those guys found 309's sistership, the 305 boat in Maryland. They negotiated with Nimitz to return the running gear from 309 to reinstall in 305. PT-309, a 78 ft Higgins boat, was sold to the National WWII Museum in New Orleans. It is supposedly being restored to running condition just a few blocks from where she was built.

[Russ Matthews]

PT 658 (a 78 foot Higgins) has been fully restored by Save the PT Boat, Inc in Portland, Oregon
and regularly takes passengers out on "patrol" under her own power -- 3 Packard V-12 engines.

http://www.savetheptboatinc.com/

[RickH]

3 Packard V-12 engines.

And boy do they sound GREAT !!

As a side note you'll notice that the surviving PTs are Higgins boats. They were shipped home after VE Day and were prepping to be shipped to the Pacific to join the home invasion when VJ day occurred.

The Elcos in the Pacific were driven up on a reef in the Philippines and summarily torched. Only a few Elcos survive, one is at the Battleship Massachusetts.

The Nasty class boats used in Viet Nam were built in Norway and the design was said to contain the best features of the Elco 80s, the Higgins 78s and the British Vosper MTBs.

[Russ Matthews]

The Elcos in the Pacific were driven up on a reef in the Philippines and summarily torched.

PTs on fire at Samar .. Nov/Dec, 1945 (From PT Boats, Inc website)
http://www.ptboats.org/20-11-05-fate-001.html

[whistlingdeath77]

3 Packard V-12 engines.

And boy do they sound GREAT !!

As a side note you'll notice that the surviving PTs are Higgins boats. They were shipped home after VE Day and were prepping to be shipped to the Pacific to join the home invasion when VJ day occurred.

The Elcos in the Pacific were driven up on a reef in the Philippines and summarily torched. Only a few Elcos survive, one is at the Battleship Massachusetts.

The Nasty class boats used in Viet Nam were built in Norway and the design was said to contain the best features of the Elco 80s, the Higgins 78s and the British Vosper MTBs.

you are correct im many of your saying's but incorrect about the Elco boats. There was a few squadron of Elco's that were commissioned, but did not go over overseas due to the war ending. Squadron 43 was the last commssioned and didn't make it over as well. 12 boats in a squadron. Those Elco's stayed stateside and some were bought by private owners, such as John Wayne. Even fishing company's bought some. My father owns and operates the Mosquito Fleet Exibit, which is the largest Pt Boat collection in private hands. I'm very proud of him for that. Squadron 22 was the only one to be sent home from the mediterian to go to the pacific.

[muddyboots]

when I was a kid a friend of mine had a boat made out of a pt boat hull. This was in BIloxi. I always wonder if this was a higgins or an elco or what.

[whistlingdeath77]

if the bow of the boat was sleak it was an elco, if the bow was stubby- a higgins. How did your friend operate a pt boat? Thats something that cost money at the time

[Clifford Bossie]

In my eye the Elco 80 footers were the most attractive boats though I have read that the Higgins boats were more nimble. In any case they are both very attractive boats.

For several years I had followed the restoration efforts of PT-309 when she was still near the Texas. It was disheartening the way she was taken from that group and moved to Fredricksberg. Once she got there it appears nothing else was done to continue the efforts.

[RickH]

Clifford, they dropped her in the hole and walked away.

[Clifford Bossie]

Clifford, they dropped her in the hole and walked away.

Indeed they did Rick. Too bad, if it the original group had at least been allowed to finish the restoration it would have made an interesting display next to the museum's N1K1 "Rex".

[whistlingdeath77]

In my eye the Elco 80 footers were the most attractive boats though I have read that the Higgins boats were more nimble. In any case they are both very attractive boats.

For several years I had followed the restoration efforts of PT-309 when she was still near the Texas. It was disheartening the way she was taken from that group and moved to Fredricksberg. Once she got there it appears nothing else was done to continue the efforts.

both boats hulls made them turn almost inside themselves. The higgins was a rougher and wetter ride. I agree the elco's were better looking

[muddyboots]

if the bow of the boat was sleak it was an elco, if the bow was stubby- a higgins. How did your friend operate a pt boat? Thats something that cost money at the time

This was Gus Stevens down in Biloxi. He owned a chain of restaraunts and was sort of connected with the DIxie mafia. In fact the boat was stolen by the dixie mafia in some kind of shell game that Gus got sucked into. I would have to see ap icture of each of the types to kow, and even then I woudln't be sure. This was 30 years ago.

[whistlingdeath77]

if the bow of the boat was sleak it was an elco, if the bow was stubby- a higgins. How did your friend operate a pt boat? Thats something that cost money at the time

This was Gus Stevens down in Biloxi. He owned a chain of restaraunts and was sort of connected with the DIxie mafia. In fact the boat was stolen by the dixie mafia in some kind of shell game that Gus got sucked into. I would have to see ap icture of each of the types to kow, and even then I woudln't be sure. This was 30 years ago.

if it was 30 years ago, around 1979 or 1980, it wasn't a pt boat. The mahagony hull would have been very rotted like all the boats would have been. Plus the hull would have been 40 plus years old, not something many people wanted anything to do with.

[SPANNERmkV]

What an interesting twist and turn this thread has taken.
I've been gone for about five days... As long as we are talking about Dixie Mafia and PT boats I guess I can hi-jack my own thread off topic, BUT still of historical relevance.

Laid my Brother Bill to rest in Hollywood cemetary in Richmond, Va last Friday.

He is buried 200 feet away from Geo. Pickett. (yes THAT Pickett)
Across the way is JEB Stuart- Gen. commanding CSA Cavalry until Yellow Tavern.
Down the hill is Fitzhugh Lee, (Bobby's son who took over the CSA Cav.) Presidents James Monroe, Wm. Tyler, and Jefferson Davis.

Sprinkled around are more Brig. Gens than I can remember, but here goes...
Anderson, Archer, Heth, Imboden, Dr. MacGuire (I think the surgeon who sawed Stonewall's arm off)

Louise's family bought the plot in something like 1877.

Bill used two graveyard jokes.
It's better to be seen than viewed.
And he always referred to burials as being planted.

I guess Louise planted a history lover about as good as it gets.

SPANNER