Rare photograph of Dreadnaught Row from Flying Fortress

[whistlingdeath77]

with my logic, the mahogany on a pt boat would have been rotted away,( or at least most of the hull.) Making a massive restoration project.

Not necessarily true, it depends on how well it was maintained over the years. The PT boat officianados don't know how many modified PT hulls are out there as something else. Most(all) of the PT survivors were severely neglected and run down...that is not proper maintenance. As Rick alluded to, PT-309 required some planking replacement..IIRC about 30% or so, and made it to 2002 before that began to happen. Not bad, by your rule of thumb it shouldn't have been possible since before 1980. There are plenty of vintage mahogany boats out there which have led charmed lives and are very original...because they were cared for.

As far as the Pt boat community is aware, there is no Pt boat that was taken care of from the 40's till now. Any boat still in exsistince has had major restoration to all of their hulls and decking.

'Boots' original statement was, the fella had a pleasure boat made from a PT "HULL", Nothing was said about "original boat". It was already a given that most have been powerplanted with something more effficient and most have been shortened or modified to other purpose. For the most part your preaching to the choir here.

please give me a list of cared for elco's or higgins that have been taken care of for 60 plus years. That list doesn't exsist. Although there is a Elco in New Jersey that is going to portray the 109. Currently, it is starting restoration.

[airnutz]

please give me a list of cared for elco's or higgins that have been taken care of for 60 plus years. That list doesn't exsist. Although there is a Elco in New Jersey that is going to portray the 109. Currently, it is starting restoration.

What's that got to do with your flawed premise...awww, never mind. I'm going back to being silently mystified by your comment. I can sit here and cut bait with this foolishness or I can go fry shrimp...I think I'll do the latter...at least there is a reward at the end.

edit error

Last edited by airnutz on Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[SPANNERmkV]

airnutz- I had the shrimp already at Kelley's Country Kitchen... took Second Air Force and Miss Ellen there one time... heck I took almost everybody who worked on TR there one time or another.

Meanwhile back at the Dreadnaught...

[whistlingdeath77]

please give me a list of cared for elco's or higgins that have been taken care of for 60 plus years. That list doesn't exsist. Although there is a Elco in New Jersey that is going to portray the 109. Currently, it is starting restoration.

What's that got to do with your flawed premise...awww, never mind. I'm going back to being silently mystified by your comment. I can sit here and cut bait with this foolishness or I can go fry shrimp...I think I'll do the latter...at least there is a reward at the end. If you wanna argue, might I sugggest you catch-up on your reading in the Boeing Tanker thread and resume with Inspector...I think he misses you.

Yes I have looked at the gusset plates and on early Higgins series of boats I think they were wood, but were changed over to aluminum gussets later in the war. I think there is a blueprint that shows this on the LDL site. I bet Al would know for sure. Also, the gussets include both at the turn of the chine and at the joint where the sides meet the top. We have found aluminum corner brackets at the back of the transom top and bottom corners on the inside as well. Where the deck meets the stern and the side of the boat. There are also aluminum support beams underneath the 40mm gun, and below the rocket launchers on later series boats. Under the deck in the engine room, there are aluminum frame webs (with o shaped holes cut in them) to beef up the engine support I beams. The engines also sit on twin parallel metal bars (these may be steel?) that support the weight of the engine mount. Of course the dc generator on each engine is inside an aluminum housing, and the DC switchboard is in an aluminum housing. Up in the fwd crews quarters overhead, there is some aluminum support beams that help tie the 6 longitudinal deck beams all together where they come to a point.

[RickH]

at the joint where the sides meet the top

Shear line

Check the link in a previous post/any pictures that show the engine room substructure, an awful lot of aluminum and steel engine bearers.

The Elcos certainly had wood gussets, I've seen all the plans for the Higgins and all of the aluminum pieces replaced ( all of them ) were rebuilt using the drawings from Higgins.

[JDK]

How long can you preserve a wooden ship for? 50 years? Try 4,500 years.

The Egyptians take the palm. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khufu_ship

[airnutz]

airnutz- I had the shrimp already at Kelley's Country Kitchen... took Second Air Force and Miss Ellen there one time... heck I took almost everybody who worked on TR there one time or another.

Well you can't beat the price or the quantity you get. If they served 'em panko or tempura style I might retire my tongs...tho nowadays I'm habited to giving the Hillman's my money for fresh off the boat...

[whistlingdeath77]

How long can you preserve a wooden ship for? 50 years? Try 4,500 years.

The Egyptians take the palm. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khufu_ship

wow that's amazing. It was also sealed in a pit and didn't sit in the salt water or near it. And it wasn't sitting outside at some marina in the elements. But still, a great find

[airnutz]

How long can you preserve a wooden ship for? 50 years? Try 4,500 years.

The Egyptians take the palm. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khufu_ship

Sh*te stirrer, Sir!!! It survived because it wasn't made of mahogany...everybody knows, all mahogany boats rotted away before 1980!

Airnutz the converted.

[davidbray]

So that's why the Constitution is still around right? Not made of mahogany?

[shrike]

So that's why the Constitution is still around right? Not made of mahogany?

S'right!
S'oak!

[Russ Matthews]

when I was a kid a friend of mine had a boat made out of a pt boat hull. This was [30 years ago] in BIloxi. I always wonder if this was a higgins or an elco or what.

if it was 30 years ago, around 1979 or 1980, it wasn't a pt boat. The mahagony hull would have been very rotted like all the boats would have been. Plus the hull would have been 40 plus years old, not something many people wanted anything to do with.

Sure, it would have been uncommon to find a WWII built PT boat hull still operating 34-39 years years after it was first launched. And yes, maybe Gus actually converted a later crash/rescue boat or a Vietnam-era PTF "Nasty" and stretched the truth a bit. But, I see no reason to dimiss the story completely out of hand .. especially based on a premise that is demonstrably flawed.

For example ...

PT-657 started life as a 78' Higgins and sails to this day (March 2011) out of San Diego as the charter fishing vessel "Mailihini."

http://www.malihinisportfishing.com/



PT-486, an 80' Elco, ran tourists on sightseeing and whale watching excursions from Wildwood, NJ (first as "Sightseer" and later as "Captain Schumann's Big Blue") for 50 years (1952-2002) before being sold as the basis of a PT-109 replica.



PT-305, a 78' Higgins now under restoration at the National World War II Museum in New Orleans, was shortened and modified for civilian use after the war .. as a New York area tour boat until 1988, followed by a further 12 year stint as a hard-working oyster seed dredge on the Chesapeake Bay.



PT-309, another 78' Higgins, likewise found post-war employment in the fishing industry before being acquired for restoration and preservation by the Nimitz Museum in 1994.



All of these WWII PT boats managed to survive by "working for a living," fully exposed to the elements, for five decades or more .. and these are just the ones that I could find with online photographic evidence of them still in the water after 1979/80. There are mentions of several others, like the ex-Fire Island ferry "Beachcomber IV"/PT-459 and Clark Gable's former yacht "Tarbaby VI"/PT-615, that only left their natural element in the last few years and are now awaiting restoration (or possible sale) with "Fleet Obsolete" in Kingston, NY.

http://www.pt728.com/

I guess all of the above is just a long way of saying I don't have any troble imagining that some 30 years ago Gus and young Muddyboots shared some good times on an another altered (but, genuine) World War Two "Mosquito boat" who's luck finally ran out shortly thereafter.

Last edited by Russ Matthews on Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[RickH]

Nice post ! Thanks for the pictures ! Where's that Elco ?

[Russ Matthews]

Nice post ! Thanks for the pictures ! Where's that Elco ?

Sure thing. As far as I know, the Elco (PT-486) is in NJ. The Wikipedia "PT Boat" page and other sources state that it was purchased by the son of its original civillian owner .. so I would presume that means somewhere in the Wildwood area (where it operated as a tour boat for so long).

http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/05486.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PT_boat

[Jiggersfromsphilly]

There used to be PT boats that ran as tourist attractions in Ocean City NJ. I believe that they were a mix of Higgins, Elco and the little known Huckins class PTs.

Here is a link to some intel on them

http://www.bdssystems.com/flyingsaucer.html

http://www.cardcow.com/168248/flying-sa ... ew-jersey/

http://www.cardcow.com/168248/flying-sa ... ew-jersey/

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/33542 ... on-Archive

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/3354271

http://www.flickr.com/photos/saucer/

Thats all Folks !!